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Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

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Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#211

Post by anth_anm »

untog wrote: post #184
deminature wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately people who misunderstood Amazon wasn't being gifted $3B includes the recently elected congressperson for the area: https://mobile.twitter.com/qtrresearch/status/10961811573167... EDIT: Congressperson for an adjacent area, not for that area.

You see this a lot because conservatives have a hate-on for AOC, but she's not the congressperson for the area Amazon were building in. Queens has a lot of congressional districts. She also had very little to nothing to do with the decision, but again, you wouldn't know that from watching the conservative commentary.

She's dumb and doesn't understand that giving away 3 billion to a company is good and also tax credits aren't giveaways because reasons.

I'm smart and don't understand districting.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#212

Post by inoop »

tmugavero wrote: post #204

New York didn't lose anything by not having Amazon here. New York is a city built on diversity, and ensuring resources are available to maintain that diversity is important to the citizens. It's a matter of giving one huge handout to the most valuable company in the world that will destroy a community and drive up wages (bad for small businesses) and housing costs (bad for Queens), versus giving $5M to 100 small busi…

> It shows that Amazon never cared about the people here and would bring nothing to the community.

Jesus christ, no. The state put an outspoken opponent of the deal in a position where he has veto power to stop said deal. Then when Amazon execs tried to call this guy multiple times he refused to even take their call. That's why they pulled out.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#213

Post by anth_anm »

whack wrote: post #54
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #5

Agree with the article. The economists can argue all day about how the equation will work out to be a net profit to NYC regardless of subsidies, but that seems short-sighted. Every decision can not be reduced to a profit/loss question. One company should not have bargaining power over an entire city, and they certainly should not get special economic treatment over others. It points to and perpetuates an unhealthy po…

I keep hearing about Amazon getting "special treatment", but is that really true? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-amazons-hq2-means-for... > For the Long Island City location, Amazon was going to receive $1.2 billion in refundable tax credits through New York State’s Excelsior Jobs Program if the company created 25,000 net new jobs in New York State by the end of June 2028. > New York State had also promised a…

> But it's insanity for locals to be celebrating shooting themselves in the foot

By preventing the massive rent increases and forcing out of the locals that Amazon will bring?

Damn, that must suck.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#214

Post by moate »

maehwasu wrote: post #123
sys_64738 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how much money Amazon got as it's the perception of the fact they are getting a tax break which is why it's shocking. Amazon isn't some two-bit startup which has no VC funding. It's the richest company in the world so why the heck do New Yorkers need to hand over their cash to bring them the Queens?

Because the United States is a very, very large country, and Amazon has lots of options as to where it takes its headquarters? Put another way--why should Amazon go to NYC? Do New Yorkers have a god-given right to the benefits of large tech companies?

No, but the idea that the only options are "amazon with a bunch of tax gifts" or nothing is a false dichotomy. The point is that NYC probably doesn't need Amazon's side (High End Jobs) as much as Amazon needed NYC (Access to high end talent, proximity to the center of the global economy).

There will always be some megacorp looking to open up in NYC. Why diminish the return for the city?

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#215

Post by vkou »

anth_anm wrote: post #207
vkou wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SF's issues aren't caused by swanky new jobs, they're caused by NIMBY politics. What are Seattle's issues, caused by, then? Because if you look at the Seattle city skyline, you'll find it absolutely covered in cranes. This town of 700,000 people, in a state of 7 million people, has more active cranes then any other city in North America. It's a construction free-for-all here. And I consider that a good thing - but…

Rents have been doing better over the while haven't they? Still have a massive shortage of housing to buy. :/

Growth of the average has slowed, but rent for lower-end units is growing.

Growth in housing prices has slowed, but at this point, the only homes normal people can afford are an hour out of town - North Bend/Everett/etc.

And, even if things magically get better tomorrow, the lower class has gone through a decade of pain to get there.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#216

Post by unethical_ban »

tmugavero wrote: post #204

New York didn't lose anything by not having Amazon here. New York is a city built on diversity, and ensuring resources are available to maintain that diversity is important to the citizens. It's a matter of giving one huge handout to the most valuable company in the world that will destroy a community and drive up wages (bad for small businesses) and housing costs (bad for Queens), versus giving $5M to 100 small busi…

Amazon and/or Austin would literally have to build in another part of the city and construct their own rail system to compete with how awful the traffic is.

Also, I disagree that diversity is a priority over long term tax revenue and infrastructure improvements and economic success.

Also, I didn't downvote you.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#217

Post by anth_anm »

sys_64738 wrote: post #65
whack wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing about Amazon getting "special treatment", but is that really true? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-amazons-hq2-means-for... > For the Long Island City location, Amazon was going to receive $1.2 billion in refundable tax credits through New York State’s Excelsior Jobs Program if the company created 25,000 net new jobs in New York State by the end of June 2028. > New York State had also promised a…

It doesn't matter how much money Amazon got as it's the perception of the fact they are getting a tax break which is why it's shocking. Amazon isn't some two-bit startup which has no VC funding. It's the richest company in the world so why the heck do New Yorkers need to hand over their cash to bring them the Queens?

Because the system is broken and Amazon knows that their dog and pony show about a competition will put politicians in a position where it's give away the money or face an opponent who attacks you on jobs.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#218

Post by anth_anm »

NickM wrote: post #156
sys_64738 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how much money Amazon got as it's the perception of the fact they are getting a tax break which is why it's shocking. Amazon isn't some two-bit startup which has no VC funding. It's the richest company in the world so why the heck do New Yorkers need to hand over their cash to bring them the Queens?

It's the richest company in the world so why the heck do New Yorkers need to hand over their cash to bring them the Queens? Because Amazon can easily go elsewhere, and most places have lower taxes than NYC. Giving them a ~10% off coupon on an extremely high tax rate is not the same as handing them money. You can object to the deal on principle, sure, but you're ignoring the fundamental reality of the situation; if NY…

> Giving them a ~10% off coupon on an extremely high tax rate is not the same as handing them money.

Yes it is. How the hell is it not?

and Amazon wants NYC for the size of it's talent pool and ease of recruiting. NYC has no reason to give them anything.

> If you want to have high tax rates and not lose business to other states, it's a winning strategy to be open to compromise sometimes

NYC is having so much trouble getting businesses to come.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#219

Post by anth_anm »

maehwasu wrote: post #123
sys_64738 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how much money Amazon got as it's the perception of the fact they are getting a tax break which is why it's shocking. Amazon isn't some two-bit startup which has no VC funding. It's the richest company in the world so why the heck do New Yorkers need to hand over their cash to bring them the Queens?

Because the United States is a very, very large country, and Amazon has lots of options as to where it takes its headquarters? Put another way--why should Amazon go to NYC? Do New Yorkers have a god-given right to the benefits of large tech companies?

The massive talent pool and ease of recruiting people to come live there from across the world. The access to massive markets. Proximity to a lot of the hot new startups. The desire to have an HQ on both coasts. New Yorkers don't have a right to large tech companies, but the companies would be foolish not to come along.

Amazon always wanted NYC. They overplayed their hand trying to get a break and it blew up in their face.

They probably could have gotten away with most of it if they did this with less fanfare.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#220

Post by anth_anm »

whatok wrote: post #56
whack wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing about Amazon getting "special treatment", but is that really true? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-amazons-hq2-means-for... > For the Long Island City location, Amazon was going to receive $1.2 billion in refundable tax credits through New York State’s Excelsior Jobs Program if the company created 25,000 net new jobs in New York State by the end of June 2028. > New York State had also promised a…

It's really sad that this point has been lost in all of this. Somehow existing programs got spun into the city/state hand delivering a $3bn check to Bezos. Really sad.

I'm glad, maybe this will lead to a movement cracking down on that sort of corporate welfare in general.
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