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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#841

Post by woodruffw »

NathanKP wrote: post #547
lenzm wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly means revenue for the city but we don't know that it means profit. All of those people are going to generate trash, take the subway and consume city services. Why shouldn't Amazon pay like everyone else?

Let me explain it in terms that any New Yorker should be able to understand: If you are a New Yorker you are no doubt familiar with the concept of "one month free rent". Most buildings in NYC will give you one month free when you sign your lease. If a building doesn't give you that offer its probably not as tempting as another nearby building that does. Yet the "one month free" isn't a losing money proposition for th…

We should be absolutely clear about this: you are not getting "one month free rent." The cost of that "free" month is built into the other 11 months, as well as the difficulty of getting your full deposit back.

"One month free" is one of the oldest tricks in the NY real estate book, along with "preferential" rating.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#842

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

bko wrote: post #808
siruncledrew wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's spectacle reminds me of Lebron's "The Decision". It's one thing to work out the details and make an announcement, but to purposefully turn it into a show about "What can you do for me?" instead of "Here's what I can do for you" made it not sit well with people. Also, the pull-out letter also basically dumps the blame on state/local officials for not wanting Amazon, despite not all stakeholders being present…

I don't see it as a "what can you do for me". A lot of Amazon's interest were aligned with that of many New Yorkers. Both Amazon and most New Yorkers want to have a strong transportation system and a diverse economy that doesn't just rely on taxing bloated financial bonuses to pay for services. They also want New York to be an in-demand tech hub with a deep labor pool and be a place where people actually want to live…

I'm of two minds on this issue, but: how can the city have good mass transit if there are no tax dollars to pay for it?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#843

Post by trhway »

int_19h wrote: post #815
trhway wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more closer would be a Saudi prince agreeing to become a US citizen in exchange for a personally reduced income tax rate. Would you support it?

Suppose we change it slightly: a Saudi prince wants to become a US citizen in exchange for some considerable investment into our economy. Do you find it objectionable? Because that's literally one of the available options today. https://www.uscis.gov/eb-5 And schemes like these exist in most countries out there, it's not just a US thing.

There is no personal tax rate decrease in EB5 in exchange for the investment.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#844

Post by geofft »

bko wrote: post #808
siruncledrew wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon's spectacle reminds me of Lebron's "The Decision". It's one thing to work out the details and make an announcement, but to purposefully turn it into a show about "What can you do for me?" instead of "Here's what I can do for you" made it not sit well with people. Also, the pull-out letter also basically dumps the blame on state/local officials for not wanting Amazon, despite not all stakeholders being present…

I don't see it as a "what can you do for me". A lot of Amazon's interest were aligned with that of many New Yorkers. Both Amazon and most New Yorkers want to have a strong transportation system and a diverse economy that doesn't just rely on taxing bloated financial bonuses to pay for services. They also want New York to be an in-demand tech hub with a deep labor pool and be a place where people actually want to live…

If skyscraper-studded Manhattan is hostile to businesses, I am really curious what a city friendly to businesses looks like....

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#845

Post by SpaceManNabs »

door5 wrote: post #812
jemfinch wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That tax break is real money . Sure, but it's real money that your community doesn't get either way . You're living in a fantasy world if you believe that the choice was legitimately between "Tax money and 25,000 jobs" or "No tax money and 25,000 jobs." No, the choice has always been between "No tax money and 25,000 jobs" or "No tax money and no jobs." You're not getting the tax money either way. Either Amazon buil…

Jobs for whom? Not the vulnerable members of New York, jobs for upper middle class yuppies like you or me or nearly anyone on this site from the rest of the country. People in Queens aren't stupid, they know what the impact of Amazon would be and how it absolutely would not benefit them. And almost certainly because of this struggle, the next City they try and go to isn't going to give them nearly as sweet a deal. Th…

Thanks for saying this. People are forgetting the effect this move was going to have on locals. I am very dubious of the Queen's polls saying things like 70% approval. A dear friend of mine does social work and volunteering with inmates and was telling me how all their families were scared as hell at getting priced out.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#846

Post by zanny »

door5 wrote: post #811
zanny wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also like some flying pigs and entropy reversed with my order of complete fantasy. Im not saying its wrong, but us muggles worth less than countries have no real, meaningful say in the future at this, and to be fair also at most other, points in history.

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez & Bernie Sanders openly espouse many of those ideas and are two of the most popular politicians in America. These ideas have a tremendous amount of traction and their advocates are getting closer to the centers of American power. This isn't a complete fantasy -- it's not an inevitably, but it is absolutely a viable part of political discourse & struggle

Even if one of them were elected president - which, again, faces staunch resistance by the olgiarch controlled DNC - a vast majority of congress is bought and paid for by globalist interests.

The Occupy Wall Street movement was probably the last possible chance to correct course. Further attempts need to somehow capture a greater mindshare than the immediate aftermath of Bush's imperialism, wanton greed and corruption throughout the federal for thirty years across four presidents, the desolation of the working class, and the unabased billionaire wellfare that bailouts represented.

We are now a decade later into corporate and wealth consolidation, a decade after Citizens United, another decade of corporate media brainwashing the "average" American into compliance and obedience. And this is a global conglomerate of business that will deter and influence all governments and societies to bow to their interests. The only way out at this point is an internal struggle between these private men and women of influence between those who have ethics and the interests of humanity at heart and the majority.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#847

Post by philwelch »

ceejayoz wrote: post #840
philwelch wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is, it would have been clearer and more honest to use the term “factory farming” if you’re talking about factory farming. I don’t know or care much about factory farming itself.

That's a bit disingenuous, isn't it? This particular thread of comments started when you reacted to criticism of "cheap factory-farmed meat".

Because that's when it became clear that's what was meant by "animal cruelty" in the first place, at least by the person I was responding to.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#848

Post by pertymcpert »

sokoloff wrote: post #543
lkrubner wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect: " that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all " The opposite is true, 100% of those taxes will be paid by some other business. Maybe you could make your argument about the New York City of the 1970s, but you sure as heck can not make that argument about the New York City of 2019. New York City is not starving for investment, rather, its biggest challenge nowadays is managing its fast growth. Other busin…

If that’s the case, why would the NY politicians put that money on the table? They did so voluntarily.

Because they were bad politicians?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#849

Post by windowsworkstoo »

ceejayoz wrote: post #687
philwelch wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but the bulk of this hyperbolic criticism comes from vegans, and they're going to use terms like "animal cruelty" no matter what livestock welfare standards you set.

Do you dispute that current lifestock welfare standards in the meat/dairy/egg/etc. industries permit what most would agree is animal cruelty if the same things were done to, say, the family dog?

Yes, I dispute that, if we are talking about Australia. As a farmer (both meat and crop), the better you look after your stock, the more you make from them. There is no incentive for cruelty and it will cost you money. Admittedly, we don't have feedlots on the same scale as the US and the majority of beasts go pasture to plate fairly quickly.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#850

Post by pertymcpert »

koheripbal wrote: post #494
driverdan wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Was it highly subsidized by taxpayers like Amazon's purchase would have been?

Tax breaks are just a temporary discount on taxes that otherwise would be paid at all. It's not like Amazon was getting CASH to move to NYC.

No they are not.
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