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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#601

Post by whynyc »

koheripbal wrote: post #488
tytso wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposition is not because some high tech firm, whether it is Google or Amazon, is expanding in NYC. The opposition is because of the Massive tax breaks and other $$$ giveaways New York was going to hand over to Amazon. I don't recall Google extorting NYC for $$$ before they decided to expand....

A "tax break" is just a reduction in taxes that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all . It still means a profit for the city. It's not like NYC is paying Amazon to come to NYC. NYC would still make huge tax revenues from additional sales, real estate, income taxes, and corporate taxes. Now they're turning that all away. It's such an irrational decision that if I were Amazon, it would raise a big red flag for me as well.…

Now they're turning that all away. It's such an irrational decision that if I were Amazon, it would raise a big red flag for me as well.

Why even pick NYC in first place ? That place, and other 1st tier cities, are red tape hell. Amazon should have known this.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#602

Post by ubercore »

jhall1468 wrote: post #247
airstrike wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not going to be organic. Instead, these same deals are going to be spread out to a bunch of other companies, most of which will pay less than Amazon on average and the "subsidies" will take longer to be a net positive. Only if you assume those other companies collectively hold the same bargaining power that Amazon did, which is an assumption I can't agree with

Man... the misinformation is so stunning. They don't NEED bargaining power because these tax deals were done through programs that already existed in New York . The overwhelming majority of the money involved in this requires you only meet the eligibility requirements. The biggest aspect of this deal for Amazon was reduced regulatory burden. That was Amazon's actual goal here, the tax offsets were just the icing that…

I thought Google didn't receive any subsidies for opening in NYC?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#603

Post by AlexandrB »

hopler wrote: post #562
NathanKP wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me explain it in terms that any New Yorker should be able to understand: If you are a New Yorker you are no doubt familiar with the concept of "one month free rent". Most buildings in NYC will give you one month free when you sign your lease. If a building doesn't give you that offer its probably not as tempting as another nearby building that does. Yet the "one month free" isn't a losing money proposition for th…

That's the narrative, but too often the promised backside never arrives.

Exactly. I'm not that old, but I've seen this dog and pony show so many times already that it's no longer surprising. The latest example being the Foxconn plant in Wisconsin. The increased tax revenue from that plant may never[1] recoup the investment Wisconsin made to bring it to the state.

[1] https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/business/technology/430953... (The estimated recoup time is 25 years, which means the plant will be obsolete before the state sees a dime of net revenue.)

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#605

Post by rlanday »

tmh79 wrote: post #99
phaedryx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I think they learned that cities will bend over backwards for them and offer up tons of free data and tax incentives.

not the cities they want to move to though... Pretty widely speculated that they were going to go to NYC and VA regardless of what the other cities did & the HQ2 gambit was just meant to maximize their bargaining position with these governments

Ok, but those people were wrong, since Amazon ended up pulling out of New York. New Yorkers have an extremely inflated sense of self-important and think Amazon just has to be in New York, when that’s clearly not the case.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#606

Post by paxys »

phaedryx wrote: post #49
cbdumas wrote: post #30

If Amazon hadn't turned this whole "HQ2" thing into a national drama they could have built a huge presence there without riling up so much backlash. Hopefully this ridiculous stunt is a lesson to them.

Unfortunately, I think they learned that cities will bend over backwards for them and offer up tons of free data and tax incentives.

Smaller cities will, which IMO is a good thing. We need to be spreading the tech ecosystem, not further concentrating it in SF/Seattle/NYC.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#607

Post by hart_russell »

atoav wrote: post #584
bko wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most new Yorkers supported the project even when told about the subsidies. It's a vocal minority that sank the project https://www.wsj.com/articles/majority-of-new-yorkers-support...

It is always vocal minoirities who do things, even with very popular topics. Animal cruelty? There is only a vocal minority who takes a public stance, despite this beeing a very clear cut issue in terms of public opinion. Migration is the other way round: most people don't give a fuck, but have a loud vocal base that will even hurt themselves to make a point and you will be heard.

What's the debate about animal cruelty?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#608

Post by reallydude »

atoav wrote: post #584
bko wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most new Yorkers supported the project even when told about the subsidies. It's a vocal minority that sank the project https://www.wsj.com/articles/majority-of-new-yorkers-support...

It is always vocal minoirities who do things, even with very popular topics. Animal cruelty? There is only a vocal minority who takes a public stance, despite this beeing a very clear cut issue in terms of public opinion. Migration is the other way round: most people don't give a fuck, but have a loud vocal base that will even hurt themselves to make a point and you will be heard.

> Migration is the other way round

Migration meaning what? Immigration within the US? That's been a hot button topic since the first Bush nationally, and has been the source of propositions in California since the my first memories of the early 80s. Interestingly, the more the internet was adopted, the more high profile the immigration debate became, nationally. Clinton talked quite a bit (even after his presidency), Bush Jr ignored it, and so on.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#609

Post by trhway »

skookumchuck wrote: post #586
trhway wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>taxes that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all. That is fallacy of excluded other possibilities. Especially for a place like NYC. I generally like AMZN, nevertheless I'm happy just on sheer principle that the bullying behavior by the 800lb gorilla didnt succeed this time.

It isn't any more "bullying" than you shopping various car dealerships to get the best deal on a new car.

more closer would be a Saudi prince agreeing to become a US citizen in exchange for a personally reduced income tax rate. Would you support it?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#610

Post by gdilla »

zelias wrote: post #55

If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision

LIC and Queens was more resistant to hipster techbros than say, Chelsea. Manhattan is already a playground for the rich, lower manhattan even more so. LIC was justifiably worried about tax payer subsidized gentrification.
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