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I Bought a House with Solar Panels

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171–180 of 298 posts

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#171
post #19

Not trying to discredit or de-emphasize the conclusion, but the ironic thing here is that the utility cost escalation rates that Sunrun had initially calculated were likely based off of pre-solar boom tariff increases. As renewables have started becoming competitive (both utility-scale and distributed), utilities have been able to avoid building more expensive fossil-based power plants and transmission lines as quick…

I'm curious how solar could have put a dent in overall power production needs as peek energy usage comes around 6-8pm when solar panels are producing almost no power. And since utilities need to plan their production around peak usage far more than around overall usage, has solar really done that much to lower utility production requirements?

Yes, there is just that much solar being installed. The grid demand curve used to look like a bell curve (peaks mid-day, goes down in the evening). Nowadays, in California there's so much solar that it basically decapitates the curve half way down. Here's today's CAISO demand curve:

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx

The industry term for this is called the "Duck Curve", where you install so much solar that you mostly reduce daytime electricity demand, but have peaks in the morning and evening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_curve

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#172
Here's a cautionary tale of purchasing a home with solar panels, even if they're not leased from a third party.

We bought a house with solar panels in 2016. The seller had purchased the system less than a year before the house went on the market, and one of the key selling points was that there was no lease to deal with; by purchasing the home, we would 100% own the solar panels and would reap all the benefits of what they generated.

Six months after the sale was finalized, we changed Internet providers and soon after that, we were forwarded an email by the seller from an organization we had never heard of, asking us to reconnect the solar panels to the Internet as a condition of their contract.

Um ... what contract?

It turns out that when the seller purchased the panels, they made a deal with this green-energy company, which was sort of a joint venture between our state's biggest utility and the state itself. The organization paid the seller $6K up front. The seller, in turn, agreed that for the next 20 years, any Solar Renewable Energy Credits generated by the panels would belong to the organization.

The existence of this contract, which included a lien on the SRECS, was never disclosed to us. And it never showed up on the title search because the lien was on this abstract credit, not on any physical property. The lawyer who did the closing had never heard of anything like it!

We ended up having to get a different lawyer involved, and it was a big production, because not only had the organization dealt with relatively few transfers of ownership, it had never dealt with a case where the SRECS contract was not transferred as part of the home sale, and undoing the mess the seller had caused by not disclosing it took a lot of legal legwork.

In the end, the organization agreed to remove the lien, rather than continue a legal battle, and I assume it then went after the seller for whatever portion of the $6K advance payment it could recoup.

The lesson I learned from all of this is that when it comes to solar panels, not even the people in the industry have much experience with the edge cases. And although installations are starting to become routine, transfers of ownership are not yet routine.

(By the way, the solar panels work well, and our energy bills are very low, but I wish someone would have told me that squirrels love to build nests under the panels and chew through wires, because yeah, that's happened, and it's not covered under the warranty.)

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#173

>One former Bay Area employee sent me a Sunrun training manual he said was current when he resigned in April 2017. It’s called “Power Play 2.0: The Guide to Successfully Sell Sunrun.” (The company confirmed its authenticity.) It instructs salespeople to sow distrust in and disdain for traditional utilities and appeal to customers’ emotions. Over 61 pages, pain is cited at least 31 times and fear at least a dozen. Whe…

Not just a 20 year contract, but a 20 year contract that holds a lien on your home. This lien is great for sunrun. It has near zero risk profit backed by a lien on a home. The financial engineering at the expense of the public is quite good.

Without a lien on the property this type of business model, where the company pays for tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment up front to private individuals who may not have any other assets to be used as collateral, simply wouldn’t work. It’s not that different from a mortgage.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#174

I'd rather give excess power to my neighbors for free or just waste it on a giant spinning pinwheel than "sell" it back to the power company. No mention of local battery storage by the reporter or the "reported/reportee".

If your power bill is not expensive enough for your taste learn to weld. Make sure you go gas-less, plasma and carbon arc for cutting, stick and flux core for welding. If that's still not enough start casting things. These hobbies also have the side effect of being great for one-upping your coworkers who do 3d printing.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is funny because we get cold called by these folks probably twice a year, and once a rep came up to our house and wanted to tell us about solar, so I gave them a short tour of the 5KW system we installed 15 years ago. The one that has literally paid for itself (about half way through year 11) based on actual generation and power consumption statistics. It would have paid for itself sooner except that PG&E has twic…

Even without explicit subsidies, it seems like rooftop solar is still getting hidden subsidies? If homeowners were paid wholesale rates for the power they provide, with prices based on the spot market, would any of it make sense financially?

No, it wouldn't. For the same reason that me operating a coal power plant in my backyard wouldn't provide me with cheaper electricity then just buying from the grid.

A centralized utility, even a poorly run one, will always provide electricity safer, cheaper, and more consistently then thousands of tiny private installations.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#176
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. Ok? That is standard practice when you own a home. You are responsible for all the maintenance on your home. What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I assume they have to be cleaned every so often. Anything else? Maybe you have an electrician come and retorque the connections once a year? It's not like they have a lot of moving parts assuming it'…

You've got the weight of the things bolted to your roof. Is your roof new or less than new and needing replaced before the solar panels are paid for? Do you know a roofer who will touch solar panels during a re-roof? This doesn't even discuss the installer incompetence and the damage they'll do to your roof during install. Those panels are bolted to the roof and bolts cut through shingles and the sheathing underneath…

What do you see obsoleting solar panels in the near term?

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#177
The article says Sunrun's shares rose when California decided to mandate solar panels on new constructions starting 2020. This doesn't really make sense to me. The reason stated was that developers don't like to install solar because it inflates the sticker price, but if you're taking out a mortgage, then you're probably looking at a payback timeline similar to the 20 year lease Sunrun offers. I don't really see how it makes sense not to take on the 5-10% (depending on installation size and house price of course) extra mortgage for what should be a cheaper overall cost over a similar timespan.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#178

An important take away from this article is simply the perils of home buying. People usually only do it once or twice in their life (I have done it twice so far) and it's really easy to make a very expensive mistake. Imagine this article with another property problem instead of Sun Run: a mother-in-law unit with a tenant, a disputed property line, a requirement to retrofit the house to make it earthquake proof, illeg…

>The realtor sounds extremely negligent to not correctly inform the buyer about the true situation until after offer is made.

Its par for the course - realtors rarely know anything at all about the property they are selling other than what the MLS says (and the MLS is often inaccurate and/or missing information). I was looking at a house and asked if the fireplace was functional and the seller's agent answered with "I don't live here, so I don't know." Another time, back when I was looking to rent, I asked about laundry facilities in the building, she was like "idk." Neither even offered to get an answer for me.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to do with solar panels to the extent that there's very little else that anyone would put on their house that uses a transferable contract. Solar panels are the most common instance in which anyone would run into this situation. I'm struggling to think of anything else, actually.

> Solar panels are the most common instance in which anyone would run into this situation. I'm struggling to think of anything else, actually. Furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, and water softeners are all often installed on contract.

They are? First I've ever heard of it. I just got a new furnance and some sort of contract wasn't even offered to me as an option.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#180
Why would anyone do this? You should either save up and buy PV infrastructure outright, or not have it at all. Being tied to some sketchy company via contract sounds horrid. I would automatically exclude any homes with this setup from my search.
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