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I Bought a House with Solar Panels

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Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#131

Post by secabeen »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #40
imgabe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. Ok? That is standard practice when you own a home. You are responsible for all the maintenance on your home. What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I assume they have to be cleaned every so often. Anything else? Maybe you have an electrician come and retorque the connections once a year? It's not like they have a lot of moving parts assuming it'…

Have you owned a multi-kW inverter before? Because if you know one that is mostly free of drama I would love to know the brand! Solar photovoltaic systems are not as maintenance free as one might wish. They still make a ton of financial sense if you own them outright, but inverters and critter damage to wiring can be unwelcome surprise costs.

I have an Aurora PVI-6000-OUTD-US that's been pretty solid. I've also heard good things about the Sunny-Boy inverters. One thing I like about my Aurora is that there is a linux command-line tool that can pull data from the inverter over serial. I pull data from mine every 5 minutes into text files on my home server.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#132

Post by antisthenes »

randombit wrote: post #52
jpeg_hero wrote: post #25

It’s always seemed so obvious to me: electronics depreciate at a rapid rate, solar panels are electronics, do not finance electronics over 20 years and think it’s going to work. For a 20 year lease, do you really want to be using a 19 year old system stuck on your roof ? Big clunky, weathered with spiderwebs. What does that look like?

Solar panels don't depreciate in the same way as most silicon. 20 years later, panels will still be producing power just fine, albeit with some degradation. Source: my house has 23 year old solar panels, my garage has 10 year old panels, they all still produce plenty of electricity. There are plenty of reasons to avoid dealing with these companies, but this isn't one of them.

Out of curiosity, how much do your 23 year old solar panels produce compared to when they were new? 90%? 85%?

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#133

Post by dev_dull »

This is almost entirely for people with solar leases, and not solar loans or paid-off panels.

For panels that are paid off it's a great deal to pay a little more for the house. It just becomes a tax-deductible loan even though it saves you money each month.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#135

Post by duskwuff »

CydeWeys wrote: post #58
throwaway5752 wrote: post #16

FYI, this has nothing to do with solar panels and everything to do with a buying a house that has stuff with transferable contracts. Save up and buy your solar outright, companies don't lease things to you unless there is profit in it.

It has to do with solar panels to the extent that there's very little else that anyone would put on their house that uses a transferable contract. Solar panels are the most common instance in which anyone would run into this situation. I'm struggling to think of anything else, actually.

> Solar panels are the most common instance in which anyone would run into this situation. I'm struggling to think of anything else, actually.

Furnaces, air conditioners, water heaters, and water softeners are all often installed on contract.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#136

Post by jrnichols »

rficcaglia wrote: post #84
sigzero wrote: post #72

What happened to the ones Tesla was coming out with?

They recently (Dec) sent emails that they are scheduling appointments to those who signed up on the list. Says only one of the several tile options available though.

I had such high hopes for the Dow Solar shingles. Maybe the Tesla ones will work out better.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#137

Post by jrochkind1 »

> Hugh Bromley, a solar analyst at BloombergNEF, says Sunrun and its competitors offer solar, sure, but can be better understood as having created “one of the most sophisticated financial engineering industries of any sector of the U.S. economy.”

While this is just a prejudice and their financial engineering _may_ be totally sound, this makes me think of CDOs and the mortgage crisis and all that.

The fact that the deal may not actually be all that good for the consumer -- and may complicate sales of their house since it's effectively a lien forcing future buyers to take a deal which may be _more apparent as bad_ in the future -- only makes me again think of the financial hijinx that led to the mortgage bubble/crisis.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#138

Post by dragonwriter »

BeetleB wrote: post #120
imgabe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. Ok? That is standard practice when you own a home. You are responsible for all the maintenance on your home. What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I assume they have to be cleaned every so often. Anything else? Maybe you have an electrician come and retorque the connections once a year? It's not like they have a lot of moving parts assuming it'…

>What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I don't remember the details, but whenever a solar company reaches out to me they list all the maintenance they will perform on the panels (a not insignificant list), and that they will charge for it if I buy it instead of lease. And that's where I tell them they just convinced me not to get solar. Where I live, every few years I get roof damage due to weather. These woul…

> I don't remember the details, but whenever a solar company reaches out to me they list all the maintenance they will perform on the panels (a not insignificant list), and that they will charge for it if I buy it instead of lease

That's because they want you to lease, not buy (and not just “lease in preference to buying”), because of their business model (and quite possibly sales agent incentives that exaggerate preferences in the actual business model.)

Sort of like how (well, before most of them went belly up because of internet competition), brick and mortar chain computer store sales staff would prefer driving off a sale to making one without an extended warranty.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#139

Post by crankylinuxuser »

jrnichols wrote: post #129
kevin_b_er wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just a 20 year contract, but a 20 year contract that holds a lien on your home. This lien is great for sunrun. It has near zero risk profit backed by a lien on a home. The financial engineering at the expense of the public is quite good.

It's terrifying that California legalized this in such a fashion and seems to have handed companies like Sunrun a huge victory.

And again and again, @AOC is completely correct. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNjckHXBNBI

There's no laws federally preventing corporate collusion and corruption regarding federal congress. And I would also make the claim it's also true for states as well.

This Sunrun contract they peddle isn't good for anyone, except for their wallet books. Just how many homes will have unattachable liens from this debauchery?

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#140

Post by sjjshvuiajhz »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #137

> Hugh Bromley, a solar analyst at BloombergNEF, says Sunrun and its competitors offer solar, sure, but can be better understood as having created “one of the most sophisticated financial engineering industries of any sector of the U.S. economy.” While this is just a prejudice and their financial engineering _may_ be totally sound, this makes me think of CDOs and the mortgage crisis and all that. The fact that the de…

While this may remind some people of the mortgage bubble, solar is nowhere near as important to the economy as home prices are. The potential to take down the economy isn’t there, the numbers are too small.
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