Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#441

Post by khill » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

digianarchist wrote: post #169

zelias wrote: post #55

If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision

>Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. Unless it's for a football stadium.

Well, the NY football teams play in a New Jersey swamp so that didn't really work out for NYC either.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#442

Post by loeg » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

digianarchist wrote: post #169

zelias wrote: post #55

If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision

>Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. Unless it's for a football stadium.

That trend seems to be (gradually) changing, although yeah, it seems like many municipalities still let themselves get shaken down by stadium-owners.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#443

Post by whoisjuan » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #366

dekhn wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misinterpreted his statement. "Cut off your nose to spite your face" is referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_... In this context, they're referring to the actions of NY (not the comment they're replying to), and TBH, there's nothing personally acidic; it's just a saying.

I was referring to feel free to pat yourself on the back for not "falling for it" , which was a gratuitous bit of personal sarcasm, just the sort of thing which acidifies online discourse. Also, arguably, the bit about an attempt to revise history is an uncharitable escalation (though not personal).

I think you're reading too much into that phrase. It's a bit condescending but I don't see how it erodes the discussion.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#444

Post by jcroll » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

SCAQTony wrote: post #208

Hey, remember those Amazon insiders that bought property on the cheap? "...Amazon employees are apparently eager to get a head start on the New York City real estate game. Condo sales in Long Island City are soaring following the announcement that the Queens, New York, [a] neighborhood will host part of Amazon's HQ2, The Wall Street Journal reports. According to The Journal, one brokerage firm sold 150 units in four…

If they bought before people knew Amazon was coming and sold now would they really lose anything? Probably still kept up with the price of inflation even now

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#445

Post by sethhochberg » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

billman wrote: post #265

digianarchist wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. Unless it's for a football stadium.

Is it just a coincidence that the Giants and Jets both play in New Jersey. Maybe Amazon should just move across the river and call it the New York office.

This was one of the common critiques of the LIC HQ2 plan - LIC doesn't _need_ Amazon to continue redeveloping well, but a nearby city like Newark gets access to the same talent pool and a big anchor tech campus could do a lot more good there. If you're gonna throw tax incentives around, it seems prudent to do the most good with them.

(Granted, Newark is in NJ... and the proposed tax deal was from NY. Thinking as adjacent states instead of a region bites.)

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#446

Post by lallysingh » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #399

raiyu wrote: post #70

After being a resident of NYC for 30 years and seeing the city change and become a technology hub and just a financial center I think this is a real loss for NYC. It would also be in Long island City which would provide a huge influx of new workers and move that neighborhood forward in development rapidly. The down side would be that it would push some residents and business owners out but this is simply a fact of li…

If you're talking about the 2nd Ave stub, yeah, it was crazy expensive but it's serving 200K passengers a day, alleviating crowding on the Lex (entire Lex is like 1.3m), and UES to Times Square is hella faster. Anyway, for me it hinges on how much special treatment Amazon got, $100K in tax abatements per job seems excessive, but others say it was pretty standard, would have been a huge anchor tenant for NYC tech and…

$100k in taxes is maybe 6.5 yrs of a tech worker's state income (using 6.85% state income tax @ 220k/yr).

That's before other taxes, like property (directly or indirectly through rent), sales, etc.

They don't need 25k jobs to support AWS clients in NYC. It's not like they're supporting on-site installations.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#447

Post by loeg » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #420

digianarchist wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. Unless it's for a football stadium.

Hundreds of thousands of people don't turn out for a parade for Amazon. They do when pro teams win championships. Football stadiums get subsidized because football is extraordinarily, wildly popular with most of the people that pay taxes. Those taxpayers spend massive sums of money on sports every year, across the NFL / MLB / NBA / NHL / MLS / NCAA. Those people pay most of the taxes that fund the government that the…

You've got it backwards.

Sports are very popular, and stadium-lovers are vocal with their representatives.

But they are an outspoken minority. The majority of tax-payers do not support subsidizing stadiums.

And stadiums will get built regardless of whether the city gives them free money, because they're profitable. So why subsidize private profits from public coffers?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#448

Post by protomyth » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #419

protomyth wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter isn't that bad. Have you been there this year? It was -26F without the wind chill a couple of weeks ago. Come for the cold weather and stay for the high taxes and high housing prices on the St. Paul side. Also, traffic is going to be fun on the west side for a couple of years.

Lol.. I live there. Polar vortex and all.. and that vortex impacted most of the country. The flip side is that houses are pretty cheap. You can buy in most brackets in almost any area you want to live in. Taxes aren't that bad. Cost of living is cheap. Summers are great.

Which side do you live on, the houses on the east side are up there. Taxes are that bad. I lived there for over a decade, and my family is still there.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#449

Post by chrisseaton » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:04 PM UTC

avolcano wrote: post #225

raiyu wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rather the money go to bringing tech jobs to NYC and making it a true technology hub then leave it in the hands of the city to spend billions on useless subway lines that are 3x the construction cost of anywhere else in the world: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...

Ah yes, "useless" subway lines that carry [checks notes] 5.6 million trips a day. I'd rather have money go towards our public transit system, no matter how fucked up it is at the moment, than spend another cent on bringing tech jobs that will come here no matter what. NYC's been a "true technology hub" for a long time, regardless of one giant company deciding to abstain from coming here.

Why is everyone doing this ‘checks notes’ bit all of a sudden? It’s all over Twitter.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#450

Post by tytso » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

zelias wrote: post #55

If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision

The opposition is not because some high tech firm, whether it is Google or Amazon, is expanding in NYC.

The opposition is because of the Massive tax breaks and other $$$ giveaways New York was going to hand over to Amazon. I don't recall Google extorting NYC for $$$ before they decided to expand....