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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#201

Post by Erik816 »

drugme wrote: post #194
CydeWeys wrote: post #5

A shame. As an employee of a Big N company in NYC, this would have provided upward pressure on my salary (even if personally I wouldn't want to go work for Amazon). But I didn't like the big tax breaks, and as a taxpayer of the city I'm glad my money won't go towards subsidizing the expansion of one of the world's most valuable companies. It's too bad Amazon wasn't willing to pay their fair share.

As shame. As an employee of a Big N company in NYC, this would have provided upward pressure on my salary. The fact that that's all you can think about ... is exactly why people are starting to lose their love for Big Tech in general.

Yes that's all the poster can think about. If you refuse to read the next sentence.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#202

Post by bilbo0s »

function_seven wrote: post #185
jhall1468 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely no way they are scaling up NY to the same degree they would have with the subsidies. There's no reason to. The value proposition is gone, so now Amazon will slow-roll growth in NY like they will any other office. The fact that you (and many others) consider this a win is an attempt to revise history. This tax deal was all about Amazon expanding very quickly. That deal is gone. But feel free to pat…

While parent (and others) may be attempting to revise history, I think this outcome is probably for the best. Whatever growth occurs in NY will be organic. Not government-subsidized hyper-growth which can throw things out of whack. Real growth brings with it real increases in public funding, that can be used to fund real increases in infrastructure demands and demands on other public services. When a local government…

>Real growth brings with it real increases in public funding, that can be used to fund real increases in infrastructure demands and demands on other public services...

This.

That's exactly why what's now going to happen in NYC is what should happen in all cases. Wish we could get this going in Wisconsin.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#203

Post by raiyu »

munificent wrote: post #179
raiyu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but they will get that tax break regardless at least this we can continue to make NYC a powerhouse tech center. And it's in Long island City not in Manhattan like Facebook and Google.

> Yeah but they will get that tax break regardless I just don't understand this argument. It's like "Someone's gonna get fucked, so I'd prefer it be me." That tax break is real money . Money that your community will not be able to spend on education, infrastructure, police, parks, all the things that make a place worth living in. Why would you hand that over to a company that doesn't need it?

I rather the money go to bringing tech jobs to NYC and making it a true technology hub then leave it in the hands of the city to spend billions on useless subway lines that are 3x the construction cost of anywhere else in the world:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#204

Post by emaginniss »

berbec wrote: post #7

Not going to miss them. Local governments giving huge tax breaks in exchange for stadiums, businesses relocating never works out.

I don't know if you can say "never". The relationship between Dell and Round Rock, TX was based on such a deal and was a significant boon in the growth of a small town into a reasonable size suburb with a good amount of industry.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20161125/this-day-in-tech-his...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#205

Post by 62197217 »

legitster wrote: post #59

A bit disappointed. The narrative really turned on Amazon during this process. But I feel like every organization shops around for deals - Amazon was the first company to do it transparently and openly tell cities what they have or are missing. There was a real opportunity to bring tech industry to heartland cities. In the end all they proved was this kind of stuff should just stay in the backroom. And good paying te…

You have to be really careful with bringing a sudden influx of high-paying workers into an area that does not already have that kind of income distribution (generally speaking, COL on the coasts is higher than that in the heartland). If you don't increase housing supply enough, you can price out a lot of the current residents and things can go downhill quick.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#206

Post by bogomipz »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #32
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #6

Google didn't need any dog and pony show or significant forms of corporate welfare (that we know of) to announce a doubling of their presence in New York. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/17/google-...

Doubling their office there still pales in comparison to the headcount projected for LIC. 7K max vs. 25k targeted for Amazon. Amazon already has a presence in NYC.

How do actual numbers pale in comparison to a number that was nothing more than projected for some hazy undetermined future date? That 25K number was only ever qualified as "over the next decade."

Google on the other hand bought 111 8th ave 8 years ago(houses 7K employees) and now they are opening a new space in the same area that will house an additional 12K more employees[1]. That will bring their total to 19K employees in a 10 year time frame.

And this was all done without extracting corporate subsidies and without all the pageantry.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-plans-large-new-york-cit...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#207

Post by siruncledrew »

zelias wrote: post #55

If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision

Amazon's spectacle reminds me of Lebron's "The Decision". It's one thing to work out the details and make an announcement, but to purposefully turn it into a show about "What can you do for me?" instead of "Here's what I can do for you" made it not sit well with people.

Also, the pull-out letter also basically dumps the blame on state/local officials for not wanting Amazon, despite not all stakeholders being present at the table when discussions started.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#208

Post by SCAQTony »

Hey, remember those Amazon insiders that bought property on the cheap?

"...Amazon employees are apparently eager to get a head start on the New York City real estate game.

Condo sales in Long Island City are soaring following the announcement that the Queens, New York, [a] neighborhood will host part of Amazon's HQ2, The Wall Street Journal reports. According to The Journal, one brokerage firm sold 150 units in four days last week — 15 times its usual volume — after Amazon announced plans to open a headquarters in Long Island City...."

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-employees-buy-apartme...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#209

Post by chatterbeak »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #91

Loose, loose: Amazon would have won had they come to NYC without any subsidies but also NYC /NY would have won despite paying some subsidies. But to save face, AMZN now has to pull out of NYC that has a great pool of talent.

I don't think it's loose at all. In fact I think it would be tight if Amazon moved there.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#210

Post by jhall1468 »

function_seven wrote: post #185
jhall1468 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely no way they are scaling up NY to the same degree they would have with the subsidies. There's no reason to. The value proposition is gone, so now Amazon will slow-roll growth in NY like they will any other office. The fact that you (and many others) consider this a win is an attempt to revise history. This tax deal was all about Amazon expanding very quickly. That deal is gone. But feel free to pat…

While parent (and others) may be attempting to revise history, I think this outcome is probably for the best. Whatever growth occurs in NY will be organic. Not government-subsidized hyper-growth which can throw things out of whack. Real growth brings with it real increases in public funding, that can be used to fund real increases in infrastructure demands and demands on other public services. When a local government…

> Whatever growth occurs in NY will be organic. Not government-subsidized hyper-growth which can throw things out of whack.

It's not going to be organic. Instead, these same deals are going to be spread out to a bunch of other companies, most of which will pay less than Amazon on average and the "subsidies" will take longer to be a net positive.

Again, people confuse bribes with standard deals. Any company is eligible to receive the tax breaks that Amazon was going to. So New Yorkers have really "won" here. Same subsidies paid out to lower paying companies at a significant slower scale and significantly less economic upside.

There's no way to turn this into a positive here.

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