Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if the city gets back much more in tax revenue?
Lol dude that never happens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
But what about.....just kidding couldn't help it
Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
161–170 of 1001 posts
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#162Google didn't need any dog and pony show or significant forms of corporate welfare (that we know of) to announce a doubling of their presence in New York. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/17/google-...
Exactly. The 25k number was just to make a splash and notice they aren't doing that again. Because there aren't really any other areas that could give them 25k skilled employees. They will scale up in Nashville which is expected since it is a growing area, and they will still be in NY due to the talent. The "HQ2" show was primarily to extract large concessions which almost worked. My initial reaction as a NY'er was "…
I don't even think they're really gonna scale up in Nashville. At least not in any meaningful way. 10 years from now, both Amazon and Google will have right around 25 thousand workers each in NYC.
The reality is that NYC is not Wisconsin, they don't need to give out money.
EDIT: I'd even go a step further, and predict that both Amazon and Google will also have ludicrously large presences in the DC-NOVA area in 10 years as well. In fact, Amazon's presence in the DC-NOVA area will be even bigger than they initially said it would.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#163"70% of New Yorkers support our plans and investment, a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence" Sounds like a negotiating tactic, to encourage residents in support of the campus to put pressure on their representatives in government. The "politicians" are upset, because their constituents are upset. Amazon, attempting to turn the tables is an interesting tactic - sort o…
What negotiation tactic? They already withdrew their plan of building a HQ there. It would be absolutely ridiculous and absurd if they decide to come back, just because the narrative between officials and constituents changed.
It certainly looks final, but that line struck me as odd. It's either a "final jab" as they walk out the door, sort of a message or lesson to other cities or regions, OR it's just a very hard-line negotiating tactic.
Honestly, them coming back to NYC wouldn't be any less of a shit show then the process of them coming to NYC.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#164Google didn't need any dog and pony show or significant forms of corporate welfare (that we know of) to announce a doubling of their presence in New York. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/12/17/google-...
Exactly. The 25k number was just to make a splash and notice they aren't doing that again. Because there aren't really any other areas that could give them 25k skilled employees. They will scale up in Nashville which is expected since it is a growing area, and they will still be in NY due to the talent. The "HQ2" show was primarily to extract large concessions which almost worked. My initial reaction as a NY'er was "…
There's absolutely no way they are scaling up NY to the same degree they would have with the subsidies. There's no reason to. The value proposition is gone, so now Amazon will slow-roll growth in NY like they will any other office.
The fact that you (and many others) consider this a win is an attempt to revise history. This tax deal was all about Amazon expanding very quickly. That deal is gone. But feel free to pat yourself on the back for not "falling for it". Maybe it works out great as other companies will lease those buildings and hire a combined ~20k employees averaging $150,000 in compensation, but that's likely not going to happen.
Cut off your nose to spite your face.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#165Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
the issue for me is that the main benefit of the tax breaks is capitalized by owners of AMZN stock, mainly Bezos, the wealthiest man in the world. AMZN is going to grow somewhere, they should pay taxes where they grow.
Yeah but they will get that tax break regardless at least this we can continue to make NYC a powerhouse tech center. And it's in Long island City not in Manhattan like Facebook and Google.
> Yeah but they will get that tax break regardless
Evidently not. Their tax break in Northern Virginia was not nearly as egregious (northern VA resident here; I'm totally fine with what we're paying for what we're getting). By contrast, what they were getting for LIC was insane.
And by not having anyone else lined up and by looking at the backlash over the size of the tax break, I'd be surprised if anyone else approached that amount, so it doesn't look like they'll get that tax break regardless.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#167The big tech giants seem to be A/B testing different ways of opposing and working with the government. Sooner or later these tests are going to start showing they have more power than the government, and they will start ignoring laws because they are irrelevant to increasing whatever metric is important this quarter. This may have already happened, it's really hard to say.
This is already happening. Corporate Lawyers exist solely for this reason. What can we get away with? How much will it cost? What is the opportunity cost of doing this in Location A, B, C. Strategies are employed to save money. Fines are the cost of doing business.
And lest I forget to mention the lobbying that happens everyday.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#168A bit disappointed. The narrative really turned on Amazon during this process. But I feel like every organization shops around for deals - Amazon was the first company to do it transparently and openly tell cities what they have or are missing. There was a real opportunity to bring tech industry to heartland cities. In the end all they proved was this kind of stuff should just stay in the backroom. And good paying te…
I woudln't call the process transparent, since in many (all?) cases, citizens were not allowed to know the details of the negotiated deals.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#169If Amazon had just quietly announced plans to expand to LIC without the "HQ2 Search" dog and pony show they almost certainly would still be here. Google buys entire city blocks and nobody bats an eye. Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition. More publicity = more scrutiny = more angry opponents of your business decision
>Turns out that publicly shaking down cities across the US tends to draw out the opposition.
Unless it's for a football stadium.
Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus
#170The big tech giants seem to be A/B testing different ways of opposing and working with the government. Sooner or later these tests are going to start showing they have more power than the government, and they will start ignoring laws because they are irrelevant to increasing whatever metric is important this quarter. This may have already happened, it's really hard to say.
My current pet idea is that the Electoral College ought to be replaced with the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies. That way we could do away with the facade that presidential elections currently create.
That's actually not a bad idea. We've already proven that the American people do a terrible job selecting a president with the current Electoral College system, so letting the F500 CEOs select the President surely can't be any worse.