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Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

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Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#211

Post by gcb0 »

djflutt3rshy wrote: post #2

The box has made browsing using TOR insufferable! It fusses and makes me click storefronts and traffic lights until I run out of patience and close out of whatever webpage I was trying to visit. I assume it has to do with a lack of Google cookies on the browser, essentially punishing me for trying to protect my privacy.

that's good. tor traffic should not leak on the open web. that just diminish tor network and cause headaches to node operators.

if you care about all that, run a node without internet exit, and also strive to make your sites available on tor (hate the "hidden service" nomenclature)

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#212

Post by eldridgea »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #68
byte1918 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are partially wrong. Maybe Google is not doing this intentionally but it also doesn't happen just because traffic is coming out of a tor node. I am using ff with some of the recommended extensions from https://www.privacytools.io/ and I get to fill in traffic signs all the time. And yes I am logged into Google.

I think what OP is talking about is Cloudflare not Google's decision. Google provides the CATCHPA API but Cloudflare decides to flag nearly all Tor traffic and make it go through the CATCHPA.

In the case of Cloudflare specifically, they support Privacy Pass[0], an extension that allows solving one captcha to allow you through to multiple sites without de-anonymizing or reducing the security properties that tor provides.

[0] https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-supports-privacy-pass...

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#213

Post by davesque »

littleweep wrote: post #163
miguelmota wrote: post #156

As a user who's constantly clicking on the crosswalk or storefront images you can't help but to think that you're essentially working for free training Google's machine learning models by providing them with supervised data points.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Where is our compensation? It's our time and brain power training Google's AI that will one day be sold back to us. I'm really not into this.

1e-10 cents.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#214

Post by gcb0 »

mattlondon wrote: post #64
Kalium wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might surprise you, but it actually has to do with what traffic coming out of TOR looks like. Well in excess of 90% of traffic coming out of TOR is spam, bots, malicious, or some combination! Google isn't going out of their way to punish you for trying to protect your privacy. They're trying to stop unwanted traffic. By unfortunate happenstance, you appear to be disguising yourself in the exact same way a shocki…

Not just for Tor. I use Firefox with a few basic extensions (Privacy badger, uBlock, Google Container) yet every time I am presented with having to pick out traffic lights over and over and over again. I usually have about 5 or 6 "challenges" before I give up and use another site. My timezone has not changed, my IP address and rough location has not changed, my screensize has not changed, my broadband speed has not c…

for google, you are the enemy. not even bots.

captcha is google master blow against ad blockers.

a regular user, who they have all the info, give them dollars per ad impression. You, with your doNotTrack (ha! that was a joke) and privacy addons makes them only cents per ad impressions.

you are google's enemy. remember this when you get stuck in captcha hell (and consequently censored from most sites until changing device/ip)

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#215

Post by bo1024 »

paul7986 wrote: post #205
miguelmota wrote: post #156

As a user who's constantly clicking on the crosswalk or storefront images you can't help but to think that you're essentially working for free training Google's machine learning models by providing them with supervised data points.

One solution is to remove Google out of your life as best as possible. Personally I now use... - iCloud.com instead of Gmail - DDG for search though I do have to !g like 20 to 30% of the time for things like driving directions (from X point to Y point), local movie times nearby and flights. I still use - YouTube - Google Maps some as its great for getting distance between X and Y - Google News (is there a better subs…

Not a solution in this case - the problem is that companies like Cloudflare use these captchas to slow down your visit if you are using Tor or a VPN. In fact being logged in to google probably helps you bypass these checks

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#216

Post by codeulike »

rothron wrote: post #141
codeulike wrote: post #128

Its getting weird when you have to fill that box in with pen and paper Marci Robin was buying a Fiat 500X from a West Palm Beach, Florida dealership, and was in the final stages of signing all the paperwork, when she was presented with a strange but simple question: was she a robot? This wasn’t online or anything, she was right there, in person, in front of the sales person, who wanted her to check a box, with a pen,…

This would've made an awesome SciFi short story. The twist at the end is that she's lying.

I can't imagine that a car dealership would even care, as long as they got to sell a car.

"Oh dang, you ticked the 'not a robot' box but you are actually a robot ... Ah, no worries, I'll put a call in to head office, get the paperwork changed. Well, enjoy your car! ... And don't forget to come back in six months for your free oil change! ... for the car, I mean."

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#217

Post by amsvie »

littleweep wrote: post #163
miguelmota wrote: post #156

As a user who's constantly clicking on the crosswalk or storefront images you can't help but to think that you're essentially working for free training Google's machine learning models by providing them with supervised data points.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Where is our compensation? It's our time and brain power training Google's AI that will one day be sold back to us. I'm really not into this.

20% of these companies could be considered public property because it is public which has been feeding the algorithms training data.

A dividend on this could probably provide for a basic income.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#218

Post by SahAssar »

jorvi wrote: post #179
morpheuskafka wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what OP is talking about is Cloudflare not Google's decision. Google provides the CATCHPA API but Cloudflare decides to flag nearly all Tor traffic and make it go through the CATCHPA.

Cloudflare is a good actor, they offer the PrivacyPass extension that basically generates 30 auth tokens from one CAPTCHA challenge and then uses those until it needs new tokens. Sadly the overwhelming majority of sites doesn't use CAPTCHA through CloudFlare but directly through Google, rendering PrivacyPass moot.

Cloudflare is not a good actor in this, they have shown that they do not care about encryption (allowing non-https backends while showing https to the end user) and embedding trackers in verification pages (the CAPTCHAs on random pages).

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#219

Post by bduerst »

imtringued wrote: post #143
Kalium wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might surprise you, but it actually has to do with what traffic coming out of TOR looks like. Well in excess of 90% of traffic coming out of TOR is spam, bots, malicious, or some combination! Google isn't going out of their way to punish you for trying to protect your privacy. They're trying to stop unwanted traffic. By unfortunate happenstance, you appear to be disguising yourself in the exact same way a shocki…

>This might surprise you, but it actually has to do with what traffic coming out of TOR looks like. That's a massive load of bullshit. Google has a captcha challenge that only humans can solve. That alone is already sufficient to prevent unwanted traffic. That is how every captcha system works. However google is an exception. If you're logged in to a google account or are using chrome then google can use that informa…

Slight nitpick but past captcha successes are a characteristic of cyborg accounts, which still act as a bot most of the time.

A lot of the behavior that captcha exhibits is in part a function of feature analysis from ML models - features that may seem ridiculous to layman humans but make sense to a neural net plugged into the data.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#220

Post by rzzzt »

rothron wrote: post #141
codeulike wrote: post #128

Its getting weird when you have to fill that box in with pen and paper Marci Robin was buying a Fiat 500X from a West Palm Beach, Florida dealership, and was in the final stages of signing all the paperwork, when she was presented with a strange but simple question: was she a robot? This wasn’t online or anything, she was right there, in person, in front of the sales person, who wanted her to check a box, with a pen,…

This would've made an awesome SciFi short story. The twist at the end is that she's lying.

The salesman is a robot as well.
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