Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#341

Post by yange » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 9:37 AM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #242

stickfigure wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Would you be willing to make this same argument for a (hypothetical) Apartheid-era app that enabled whites to manage blacks? I think it's pretty reasonable for the court of modern political opinion to pass judgement on the more egregious examples of injustice in the world. Yes, morality is relative, but there's a strong majority opinion on this - especially in the countries that build the technology…

> Would you be willing to make this same argument for a (hypothetical) Apartheid-era app that enabled whites to manage blacks? Yes (but only begrudgingly). Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation. That means within their borders they can do as they please, even if we don't like what they do. We fought one of the most devastating wars in history (the 30 years war [1]) trying to control what other people think, and at the e…

This is one of the many reason why China is blocking foreign digital platforms and rolls out their own copies.

This way they have complete control of praticing their own norms and policies on their platform without large foreign compines saying what they should and shouldn't do.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#342

Post by belorn » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 12:57 PM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #327

wongarsu wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly suspect "directly harmed" is a moral judgement, not an objective measure. If female genital mutilation "direct harm"? If yes, does the same apply to circumcision of males? If yes, is denying jewish people a religious practise (and thus potentially entry to heaven) "direct harm"? Different people will answer this very differently, even in the same country and culture. More applicable to this case: Is it ok fo…

These questions are easy to answer. If female genital mutilation "direct harm"? Yes. does the same apply to circumcision of males? Not to the same extent, because the harm is less - despite using the same word, cutting off the foreskin is objectively less harmful than cutting off the clitoris. However, this is an area where the prevailing opinion is shifting as we speak. Male circumcision used to be normal (in the US…

That description glosses over the context and compare female circumcision that is conducted in one area of the world with male circumcision of a complete different area of the world, creating the conclusion that whats matter is what bit get cut off.

If we look at African culture, which is the most common place for female circumcision, we find that male circumcision is quite different from what people might expect in both execution and purpose. The boys are much older, and the ritual is done in part to test the "warriors" ability to withstand pain. A boy who cries out in pain brings great dishonor to his family, and of course no sedative is applied. It is ritualized torture with religious attributes.

This does not make US and EU style of male circumcision more moral, but it does mean that when you say that "the harm is less" with circumcision of males, what we are saying is that ritualized torture is not as bad as cutting off the clitoris. I object to that. male circumcision in nations that practice female circumcision is one of the worst form of barbaric acts one human can do to an other human, and for the worst reasons.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#343

Post by natch » Wed, Feb 13, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #135

natch wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok thanks, that makes the decision easier then.

Back to yellow cab, the bastion of human rights.

Yellow cab kinda sucks though... most people weigh multiple factors and aren’t as inflexible as you imply.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#344

Post by mscasts » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:52 AM UTC

908087 wrote: post #290

mscasts wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already block porn because it's sensitive in the US. Games where you shoot people in the head or drive people over is okay though. I can't see how this differs.

Are you saying you don't see the difference between video games, and an app that is meant to harm/control actual living human beings?

No that is not what I am saying. I am for the ban of this app since they already block less offensive things like porn.

It would be double standard to allow a muslim app to control real human beings but block porn.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#345

Post by kelnos » Thu, Feb 21, 2019, 12:06 AM UTC

zimpenfish wrote: post #236

tokyodude wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Google should yank the app. I think Apple should be forced to carry the app or open their platform. Android users can install whatever they want. Apple should not be in a position to prevent iPhone users from doing the same. To me if BMW said "You can buy this car but you're not allowed to drive to to Compton Los Angeles". The answer should not be "If you want to drive to Compton buy some other brand". It sho…

> I think Apple should be forced to carry the app > I get that Apple shouldn't be forced to carry those apps This is a confusing stance.

It's only confusing if you leave out the context as you did.

The parent's statement was that Apple should be forced to carry the app, unless they're willing to open the platform so people can sideload their own apps without going through Apple's store.