Basic Income is a completed unworkable pipedream, a revival of the “utopianism” of 100 years ago, when society thought that everything could be fixed if we just introduce “x solution”. But we live in complex changing times, so they need for “simple” solutions will always be appealing. For examples, see the current political situation in the USA and Europe.
Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
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Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#32Discussed previously:
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#33My understanding was that as automation eats jobs people will need money to live whilst they pursue self-actualisation, creative living and community-based work/contributions (in place of "finding a job"). If the reporting is correct in that the aim was to see how people would respond given the current state of affairs - get a haircut, get a job - then maybe the aim was misguided? Better mental-health, for example, and contributions to common/public good (freed from the scourge of having a job and job-seeking obligations) might be what matter most as the jobs people tend to do are replaced with jobs that they can't yet do. During that transition period of creative destruction what you really don't want is civil unrest (or opioid abuse), right? Perhaps this should have formed a greater part the metric. Of course, how you go about raising taxes in this new world might prove an even more thorny question which relegates the former to "continuing research".
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#34Perhaps the participants in the study were carefully selected to get the desired outcome.
I can't imaging that this is true in the general case.
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#35Well that's missing the point. Basic income is not supposed to help them find jobs that can sustain them so they no longer need it, but make it optional. Stop make it mandatory to have a well paying job to be able to afford rent and food. Which, by the way, only applies to middle and lower classes anyway because people from higher classes can live off their investments and don't have to work.
You don't need a well paying job to afford rent and food - just don't live in ridiculously expensive areas. USA has a plenty of very cheap places to live. As the rest of the world, with maybe a few exceptions of very expensive micronations.
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#36I find this title a good example of framing. From the article: "On the basis of an analysis of register data on an annual level, we can say that during the first year of the experiment the recipients of a basic income were no better or worse than the control group at finding employment in the open labor market" So you can say "free money didn't help people find jobs", or you could say "free money didn't discourage pe…
And the report I heard said they were happier and had better mental health, which has got to be worth something on its own. Also, only giving basic income to unemployed people doesn't give good data on what a society-wide basic income would do. My reading of the study is "bureaucratic and narrowly defined job search advice and systems depress people but have no positive impact in them getting a job" - as you say, the…
> And the report I heard said they were happier and had better mental health, which has got to be worth something on its own.
Even economically, since mental health issues can be very costly
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#37The recipients did however report “less stress symptoms as well as less difficulties to concentrate and less health problems than the control group,” said Minna Ylikanno, lead researcher at Kela. “They were also more confident in their future and in their ability to influence societal issues.”
It did help people be healthier and happier though, but the headline only points out that they're still unemployed. We must be doing something really wrong as a society when we treat jobs as an end, rather than a means.
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#38Can anyone explain to me, with basic income, why wouldn't I want to sit at home all day and play videogames?
In your current life, do you only work the bare minimum required to support a life of sitting at home and playing video games in your free time?
I think the main reasons most people would still work are:
- To give purpose to their lives and occupy their minds/bodies
- In order to afford a better lifestyle than they could on only UBI (nice house, holidays, going out etc)
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#39I find this title a good example of framing. From the article: "On the basis of an analysis of register data on an annual level, we can say that during the first year of the experiment the recipients of a basic income were no better or worse than the control group at finding employment in the open labor market" So you can say "free money didn't help people find jobs", or you could say "free money didn't discourage pe…
Valid point, but I believe people will be less inclined to support this if basic income basically means "we can give all this money for free to people and they will do about the same as people we don't give money to". It's hard to justify it.
We're already giving free money to people, but at the moment we're giving money to people specifically for not working and for subjecting themselves to humiliating bureaucratic processes. So people get simultaneously rewarded and punished for not working.
Instead, let's just give them the money and give them some freedom.
Re: Free Money Didn’t Help People Find Jobs, Finland Says
#40Well that's missing the point. Basic income is not supposed to help them find jobs that can sustain them so they no longer need it, but make it optional. Stop make it mandatory to have a well paying job to be able to afford rent and food. Which, by the way, only applies to middle and lower classes anyway because people from higher classes can live off their investments and don't have to work.
In the vast majority of capitalist societies, you don’t need a “well paying job” to eat. There are all manners of safety nets. Even in the USA no-one has starved to death in modern times.