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A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

cookssource.com

101–110 of 120 posts

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#101
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her business is to work "with small food-oriented businesses and farms to get the word out on their works/products". The vehicle is publishing, and I get the feeling she's using the magazine the same way a lot of normal people use their computers: as a means to an end. If I had to guess, I'd wager that's why she doesn't understand copyright. Her area of expertise (and I use that word with a HUGE grain of salt) is foo…

That's fair, but the reason she's taken so much heat is that she blasted the author whose work was stolen, citing decades of experience that gave her authority on copyright law. If her area of expertise is food, then she has no business citing her business in editorial work as a viable defense.

It's similar to development and development management. They require different skills - being a good developer doesn't mean you'll be a good development manager and vice versa.

Similarly being a journalist (which is about research and writing) is very different to being an editor (which is about organisation and the commercial side of things).

That said, her level of knowledge seems insufficient for either role. The basics of copyright law would seem to be a pre-requisite for anything involving writing these days.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#102

While I have no sympathy for this woman, something in her story does concern me. "we have had so much hate email (over 400 pieces) , phone calls and regular mail." She violated some copyright. That is an issue between her and the copyright holder. I feel slightly ashamed to be part of a community (Not HN specifically, but the more global software community) that responds with hate mail and abuse.

As soon as something is "made into a facebook group", all bets are off, I suppose. This kind of abuse is rarely (if ever) justified, so I agree with you, but I would also add that it's her making this statement and I have kind of stopped trusting that voice.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#103
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that list of plagiarized articles is accurate, she certainly seemed to have it coming, but you'll have to forgive me if I can't feel awesome about the victory of asymmetrical internet mob justice over a small-time regional magazine. God forbid they ever smell blood in the water you're swimming in.

Actually the so-called "mob justice" was a HUGE FAVOR. I'll explain. How would you feel if your start-up was ripped off? Would you want HN people to rally around you, or would that be "mob justice"? And what if it turned out the same people were also ripping off, say, Microsoft and Apple and several other large corporations? If everyone had been so civil and polite, they wouldn't have felt pressured to shut down. I d…

MP3s are different, they're covered by a specific law (the Digital Millennium Copyright Act) created at the behest of the record companies and it wouldn't apply here.

While there may be some elements of criminal law that might apply, in all probability this would have been a straight civil case rather than a criminal matter with the writers claiming damages for the work published without permission. She could have accepted liability (or even not done so), paid them (which would likely have been relatively limited given the pieces she's used - it's not like she's been grabbing major scoops from the NYT) and moved on.

The chances are that the writers would be no more interested in racking up legal bills that she would so costs there would have been minimal. Basically she gives each one of them a few hundred dollars, they give her a letter saying it's OK to run the piece.

She was in the wrong but the punishment (essentially being forced out of business) doesn't really fit the "crime" and the legal remedies would have been far easier on her than the mob was.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#104
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: typos. Can we just do the "put yourself in their shoes" thing for a moment, and consider that she may be heart-broken by all of this, and typed that note through tears? Have you ever attempted to write a note (typed or hand-written), under extreme stress, pain, or frustration? I know I have. It wasn't pretty. Please, some compassion.

As much as I agree with you, if you're writing a public missive about the future of your company, it doesn't make sense to publish the draft, much less the draft you wrote through heartbroken tears. There's a professional context to consider.

Particularly when if you paste the first paragraph (all three and a bit lines of it) into Word it points out the "Id/I'd" error and two other errors (traveling [sic] and hasnt [sic]).

Zero skill, knowledge or emotional togetherness required.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#105
post #33
post #28

(Working on the assumption that the author is being sincere here) This displays such a fundamental misunderstanding of copyright that it initially shocked me. But in retrospect I suspect this attitude is probably very widely shared, particularly amongst younger people who've grown up with Napster and filesharing and bit torrent. While most of us don't republish other people's copyrighted work, I'm sure very few of us…

Actually, pondering this a bit further, I wonder if my idea of this being a "generational change" is wrong. I wonder how people in the 1930s or 1940s views their obligations to artists/composers/filmmakers/writers and those people's rights to control their published work? It may be the "Disney era copyrights" are just a temporary anomaly in "the way the world works", in a similar way to the ~30 year "profitable album…

There sure is a disconnect going on between how big corporations utilize copyright to their advantage and how regular folks deal with it, rather hamfistedly, as in this case.

I disagree with your earlier statement that this might be a new way in which the public "thinks about copyright", it is rather the new way in which it is /misunderstood/. So I'd say we shouldn't confuse the mounting ignorance in the general populace (which is, mostly, attributable to just the sheer amount of stuff that is out there - logic usually fails when something gets too big to follow) with an actual shift in consciousness. There is a need to rethink a lot of this, but that shouldn't be about "how do we break the old thing", but about "how do we create a new thing" - and that is where efforts like CC come into play.

So I don't really disagree that this is a widespread phenomenon, I'm just saying that it will not be where the change comes from in the future. That is, of course, unless reality is particularly cruel to us.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#106
post #74

Instead of picking up one of the multitude of books sent to me and typing it, I got lazy and went to the www and "found" something. Well there you go, and they didn't need to write the 2000 other words on that page which were all excuses - no one forced them to be a publisher. They copy and pasted and planned on begging for forgiveness later being easier than asking permission. Or maybe not even being noticed at all.…

An interesting point - after all, if this was really about creating a good magazine and not having enough time to write the content, going with public or CC licensed content would actually make a lot of sense. So the way she conducted her business was actually not THAT far off - she just happened to be completely ignorant about there being a way that she could avoid the obvious legal issues.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#107

I am curious to hear the opinions of some of the people in this comment thread regarding the downloading of copyrighted music, torrenting copyrighted films, downloading copyrighted books, or otherwise illegally using copyrighted content. I'm not defending this woman as she did do something wrong. However, I think it's distressing that people are celebrating her "defeat," especially as (I would guess) most of her crit…

No. There is a difference between pirating for personal use or even sharing with others and re-publishing content for profit.

Copyright survives precisely because it is not enforced 100% - if it was followed by the letter, everybody would very soon see that it's not a good idea, crippling culture and turning the participation in public discourse on its head. This is also why there are rules like Fair Use - to acknowledge that there is an area where copyright is just not producing any net worth for society.

That said, you cannot then go on and follow that because it is rarely followed to the letter by regular people, the whole system isn't working. I see the recent "liberal" approach to cultural content as a plain opposite and equal reaction to the decades of capitalizing on culture. The media industry had their way for a good while and very nearly fully commercialized it (which is why, even today, you see people arguing that artists wouldn't produce art if they weren't paid for it) and now that the sole purpose of their existence (distribution of cultural content) is done better, cheaper and more efficient by regular people do they circle around themselves eating their own young.

I see the Cooks Source incident as a very weird example of a regular person behaving as entitled as the big media corporations do (or compare, for instance, the various Timbaland "situations" we've had over the years) - she is not in a position where she can act like that, but others clearly CAN.

These are all symptoms of a change that is clearly happening, but the outcome will not consist of those symptoms. Or at least I hope that it does not.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#108
post #25

It's really amazing how utterly contemptible this editor's responses have been. Rip off everyone else knowingly for months or years, then claim innocence and that it was an isolated mistake. Blame everyone else for your own actions and pretend that your apology was fake because people were mean FIRST, when actually the fake apology came first and THAT is what made them mad. Be offered a chance to make it up, denigrat…

I agree with most of your points, but I think calling it "depravity" is unwarranted.

Hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

She doesn't understand copyright. That's the beginning and end of the problem.

I think a quote from Zed Shaw's rant on trolls is warranted too:

"I restrict my ranty words to assholes I feel are hurting other people, and I can take it as good as I get it. You got something to say? You think I fucking suck? Rock on, go ahead and say it.

But, you better fucking know your shit, 'cause I sure as hell do."

Monica knew her shit. Judith didn't. The battle was over before it started.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#109
post #68

I'm going to have to go against the prevailing view and say that you guys are being way too harsh. She messed up. She apologized. Maybe it wan't sincere enough for you, fine. But in any case, what she did is less horrible than what has since been done to her. I have no doubt that "harass" is the right word, no doubt that her advertisers are being contacted, her voice mail stuffed, and her mailbox filled. Based on wha…

Her problem isn't that she messed up. Her problem is that she doesn't understand her own business. If she had a long history of honest publishing and the story was that she had two browser windows open, one with a Creative Commons licensed article and one with an unlicensed article, and simply copied from the wrong window, that would be messing up. Not even knowing that copyright is the default state of a written work is not messing up. It's utter ignorance of a fundamental rule in the business of publishing.

You can't make something like that go away. No amount of apology is going to change the fact that you don't have the requisite knowledge to be in the publishing business. The only correct response is to go back to the drawing board and learn your shit before you come back to work.

Re: A Follow-Up to "The Web is Public Domain"

#110
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I agree with you, if you're writing a public missive about the future of your company, it doesn't make sense to publish the draft, much less the draft you wrote through heartbroken tears. There's a professional context to consider.

Particularly when if you paste the first paragraph (all three and a bit lines of it) into Word it points out the "Id/I'd" error and two other errors (traveling [sic] and hasnt [sic]). Zero skill, knowledge or emotional togetherness required.

> traveling [sic]

I take it you're in the Commonwealth? A US copy of Word shouldn't flag that.

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