Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 140 posts

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#81

Post by monksy »

colde wrote: post #71
refurb wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian who flies a lot, Air Canada has absolutely the worst customer service. They make the “crappy” American carriers (United, etc) seem luxurious by comparison. I remember one time connecting in to Vancouver and asking if I could could jump on the earlier flight rather than waiting 3 hours. Done this multiple times with US carriers if there is room. What do they care if the seat would have been empty otherwi…

I think that's more of a US versus the rest of the world thing. You can't do that anywhere in Europe with any carrier either without incurring change fees. Standby and same day changes is not really a thing outside of the US.

That's not true. I've had KLM put me on an earlier flight due to issues at Heathrow before. It's all about your airline. (Hint: Lufthansa = everything is your fault.. even their screw ups)

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#82

Post by ghaff »

joecool1029 wrote: post #19

On topic: Depends on where you are. I was on an overbooked flight with WOW in Iceland a few months back, they ultimately ended up getting me a seat, but there is sometime about compensation if they can't get you on a flight within X number of hours as a result of the fault of the airline. I'll try to dig it up again... Somewhat unrelated but I had a terrible time with Air Canada a couple weeks ago for a YUL > EWR fli…

Basically don’t buy liquids duty free these days. There’s too much that can happen to make you end up with a liter or so of booze and now you need to pass through security.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#83

Post by notahacker »

deathanatos wrote: post #73
tomhoward wrote: post #24

It's been discussed on HN before [1], but it's worth mentioning in this thread that there's a YC-backed company – Volantio – working to solve this specific problem. Most airlines' position is that they have to oversell flights, otherwise planes will fly with empty seats unnecessarily. But from passengers' point of view, there aren't always enough people who'll voluntarily accept an offer to transfer to a different fl…

> But from passengers' point of view, there aren't always enough people who'll voluntarily accept an offer to transfer to a different flight once they are at the gate awaiting boarding There are; they just won't accept any offer. Most of the airline offers I have been offered in this situation were paltry: reschedule and some airline "credit". Give me a partial or full refund, and I'll be much more willing to volunte…

On the flip side, I've seen an offer which looked extremely tempting, except I don't think my employer which was paying for the flights would have seen it that way...

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#84

Post by mruts »

deathanatos wrote: post #73
tomhoward wrote: post #24

It's been discussed on HN before [1], but it's worth mentioning in this thread that there's a YC-backed company – Volantio – working to solve this specific problem. Most airlines' position is that they have to oversell flights, otherwise planes will fly with empty seats unnecessarily. But from passengers' point of view, there aren't always enough people who'll voluntarily accept an offer to transfer to a different fl…

> But from passengers' point of view, there aren't always enough people who'll voluntarily accept an offer to transfer to a different flight once they are at the gate awaiting boarding There are; they just won't accept any offer. Most of the airline offers I have been offered in this situation were paltry: reschedule and some airline "credit". Give me a partial or full refund, and I'll be much more willing to volunte…

I've seen some very lucrative offers. Like $500 credit, upgrade to first class tomorrow, AND a 4-star hotel room. That might not be the norm, but that's a pretty amazing deal.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#85

Post by notahacker »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #67

Is this only a North American thing? I've flown hundreds of times within Europe over the last few years, and every single time I've had a seat assigned at online check in, usually 24-72hrs before boarding depending on airline. I've seen lines of standby passengers at Frankfurt, waiting at the gate just in case they get lucky at the last minute, but knowing in advance that they don't have a seat on that plane unless s…

I suspect it's rarer in Europe because the mandatory compensation costs of failing to put a passenger on a flight close to the originally scheduled time are so high.

That said, I've had a gate agent try very hard to bump me off an intra-EU flight which I assume was due to overbooking (I was on business, so I expect they bumped a later arrival with a more expensive ticket instead...)

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#86

Post by notahacker »

tomhoward wrote: post #24

It's been discussed on HN before [1], but it's worth mentioning in this thread that there's a YC-backed company – Volantio – working to solve this specific problem. Most airlines' position is that they have to oversell flights, otherwise planes will fly with empty seats unnecessarily. But from passengers' point of view, there aren't always enough people who'll voluntarily accept an offer to transfer to a different fl…

Intrigued by how this works days or weeks before (except in the case of an aircraft swap being known in advance) given that the extent to which passengers will turn up in numbers greater than originally estimated is generally only known at check in stage, probably Still, even communication on the morning of the flight beats finding out at the airport (Gold standard for poor service goes to airBerlin, who somehow managed not to inform me that they'd actually cancelled my entire flight days before until I turned up for it in Greece with a handful of other bemused holidaymakers, most of whom unlike me hadn't booked direct. I'd have accepted a much less expensive and more flexible date for an alternative flight though.)

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#87

Post by rlpb »

lisper wrote: post #65
dominicr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if a seat is sold twice but only used one that's more profit than if every seat is only sold once. Most businesses maximise profits, not passenger experience (and those that work on passenger experience do so because they've decided that's their way to increase profits and they'll do so in a cost effective way). Airlines say that this means all the seats on a flight can be a bit cheaper as the cost of operati…

> Because if a seat is sold twice but only used one that's more profit than if every seat is only sold once. Well, yeah, but that badly misses the point. Selling any product twice is more profitable than selling it only once, all else being equal. But in most industries, selling the same product twice is considered unacceptable. In fact, it would be considered fraud. The story that the airlines tell to make people th…

Allowing airlines to oversell has the effect, in a competitive market, of reducing ticket prices for everyone else.

Put another way: banning oversell would mean that airlines routinely travel with more empty seats. This inefficiency would show through in higher ticket prices.

> In fact, it would be considered fraud.

Fraud involves deception. This doesn't apply in a market environment where it is widely known that they oversell.

The downside is that a free market isn't very good at adjusting to unlikely individual events.

I favour the legislative model in which airlines are permitted to oversell but there is statutory compensation due to anyone who is bumped. This provides the counterbalance to airlines taking it too far in risk to passengers.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#88

Post by tomhoward »

lisper wrote: post #75
tomhoward wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One valid reason for this practice is the existence of fully flexible fares, that can be switched at late notice. So there is always some uncertainty about exactly how many ticket holders will be wanting to board a given flight. As for the rest, I dunno, maybe give them a break. Margins run at about 1%, give or take, so two empty seats matters. Heavy financial losses and bankruptcies are common for airlines. On the p…

> One valid reason for this practice is the existence of fully flexible fares Airlines are under no obligation to offer fully flexible fares. If they screw up the business model so badly, maybe the answer is to simply stop offering them.

Flexible fares matter a lot, both to customers (mostly business travellers with uncertain schedules) and airline economics.

They don't screw up the business model, the business model relies on it. Without these fares, everyone would be paying more and flexible passengers would be inconvenienced.

But the presence or absence of flexible fares doesn't change the fact that the precise number of passengers trying to board is uncertain, and that will always create a complex optimization problem if you care about both efficiency and customer satisfaction.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#89

Post by chrisper »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #67

Is this only a North American thing? I've flown hundreds of times within Europe over the last few years, and every single time I've had a seat assigned at online check in, usually 24-72hrs before boarding depending on airline. I've seen lines of standby passengers at Frankfurt, waiting at the gate just in case they get lucky at the last minute, but knowing in advance that they don't have a seat on that plane unless s…

No, European Airlines do this as well. But if you check in online, you have your seat.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#90

Post by tomp »

colde wrote: post #70
tomp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these apply? Iceland isn’t in EU.

The site addresses this pretty well at almost the top of the page: - If your flight is within the EU and is operated either by an EU or a non-EU airline - If your flight arrives in the EU from outside the EU and is operated by an EU airline - If your flight departs from the EU to a non-EU country operated by an EU or a non-EU airline - If you have not already received benefits (compensation, re-routing, assistance fr…

Wow is an Icelanding airline, the flight was departing from Iceland, so none of the above are relevant.
Post reply on HN