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Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

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Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#231

Post by ryandrake »

duxup wrote: post #83
locklock wrote: post #11

I'm really thankful I haven't yet had a job where all I'm developing is new ways to force people to see ads. Imagine working on a 'feature' like this for weeks or months, and the end result is simply that people who don't want to see ads now have to see ads.

It sounds like a fun challenge. It's just ads. If we're talking about some ad for a coffee maker, whatever. Now their whole selling data to unscrupulous folks, taking money from parents via their kids, selling fake news that makes people hate other people (now that gets into the ad space...) .... That's where I'd want to nope out.

It can be demoralizing to work on anything that’s against the end user’s satisfaction, regardless of whether it’s actually evil.

I remember working as a junior developer on a desktop app that had so many fatal bugs that it crashed very often. Instead of being given the time needed to fix the crashes, I was told to build this watchdog ‘launcher’ EXE that would simply re-run the application every time it crashed, restoring its state, in the hopes of fooling the user into believing it doesn’t crash so much.

Was it technically interesting for a freshly minted engineer? Yea! Was it soul crushing to be working on an obviously half-assed attempt to mollify angry users instead of making them happy? Yes.

I was also asked to write code that cheated benchmarks. Definitely had a “what-am-I-doing-with-my-life” moment.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#232

Post by IshKebab »

robryan wrote: post #207
singron wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually seems pretty effective in this case. This uBlock Origin issue has been open for half a year and none of the default lists block the ads: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uAssets/issues/3367

Extensions like ublock having public block lists makes it even easier for Facebook to write something that breaks the filter.

Yeah and Facebook has far more resources than uBlock to fight the cat-and-mouse. So it is effective.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#233

Post by efsavage »

driverdan wrote: post #65
ergothus wrote: post #29

I interviewed at FB recently (didn't pass the in-person) and the one question I asked each interviewer was "tell me about the parts of FB I don't see" - because they have an odd hiring process where you don't figure out what team you'd be working with until after you are hired...and I had no interest in pushing Ads, but understood that wouldn't be a great pitch from my side. Turns out there is a LOT about ads at FB.…

> you don't figure out what team you'd be working with until after you are hired That sounds like hell. I need to meet the team I'll be working with before accepting an offer. It's the only way to know if they're competent, can communicate, and are not assholes.

These big companies optimize to reduce false positives during hiring, and I can say with 99% confidence across engineering that they are, they can, and they are not. I've yet to meet a jerk here after almost 2 years.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#234

Post by edoceo »

thebaer wrote: post #173
hombre_fatal wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run an old collaborative writing (roleplaying) forum populated mostly by teens that's paid for by a banner ad. When I read HN comments about ads, I see people who are forgetting what ads have actually gotten us: more people able to create more things that are available to everyone for free. HNers like to say "well, then adapt your business model," but look at the incredibly friction that exists for getting people t…

People love to complain about giving up money when they don't understand the value they'll get from something. Make it clear what you're selling and why it's worth $10 / month, and people will pay you. It's not as big of a problem as you think. We can still create a world of free products that enable what your forum has -- it just needs a simple business model like, Hey, do you enjoy writing here? Send me $5! Then su…

> Make it clear what you're selling and why it's worth $10 / month, and people will pay you. It's not as big of a problem as you think.

If only all buyers were as rational as you. IMO the problem is bigger (by far) than just make a case and people pay.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#235

Post by engineeringwoke »

manigandham wrote: post #220
reaperducer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more worried about people hiring based on such strange judgements of character. I wouldn't. Over the decades I've seen many people hire, and later regret hiring, people who demonstrated poor character. In a more public sense, remember the Bush-Clinton election where the full version of the fabled "It's the economy, stupid" slogan was "Character doesn't matter; it's the economy, stupid." And we see what happene…

The post is about judging people's character simply by where they work and in the most ungracious terms. Doing that actually is poor character.

Well you could choose to work at a company that doesn’t treat human beings like money machines?

Or you could choose to not lie to yourself about said humans as money machines ideals with classic tropes like “there’s a lot of different teams” or “I haven’t seen that kind of thing at my local office”?

Throwing out a couple options here that don’t require intense mental gymnastics

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#237

Post by BenderBRod »

jackstraw14 wrote: post #216
JacobJans wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very immature view of advertising, that, unfortunately many advertisers share -- and it leads to scummy ads, with no eye on the long term relationship with the person viewing the ad. However, many ads are not deceptive in any way, and instead simply offer something of value to people who may be interested, without any deceit, psychological trick, or ulterior motive. Just because there are bad ads does not m…

I'd say the ads are still deceptive even if they weren't created with that intention. It doesn't need to be sneaky, but if it's unsolicited then the consumer didn't opt for their attention to be steered toward it. edit: removed example as it distracts from the point.

> if it's unsolicited then the consumer didn't opt for their attention to be steered toward it.

Isn't that everything in the world, always?

Why do I have to walk past the cereal to get to the milk on a supermarket, why I am being so deceived? After all, I didn't consent to being bombarded by all those car emblems on the highway on my way to work, and I definitely didn't agree to see the orange bar at the top of this page, that "Y" is hunting me I say! why is my attention being stolen away?

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#238

Post by underwater »

Blame Adblock Plus and friends. They try to extort sites by asking for a cut of ad revenue (up to 30%) to be whitelisted in the "acceptable ads" program.

Given that ABP have already determined the ads are "acceptable" when they reach out, the demand for cash is mere extortion. FB obviously chose to not give in and told ABP to take a hike by obfuscating the source code.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#239

Post by asdkhadsj »

acrispino wrote: post #230
asdkhadsj wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I feel like ads have such a bad rap because of the state of the internet. Yet, what does everyone expect? Is it shocking that content providers want money for their product? And yes, I know, some sites and ads do terrible things. The actively hurt viewership. BUT, isn't that the same with everything ? Even my groceries are getting worse as companies seek ways to increase profits without pissing me off; the…

If "no shit" is an appropriate response to advertiser behavior, I'd want "no shit" to also be an appropriate response to users installing ad blockers, instead of whining: https://www.adweek.com/digital/yahoo-exec-calls-out-mobile-a...

Agree 100%. Ad blockers are akin to piracy which has been a natural force on the consumer side. Legalities aside, if you make consumers UX miserable enough they often work through it - and I support that.

My comment was mainly in the context of ads being discussed as some anti-consumer device. Where as I view them as a natural part of the payment ecosystem. Too many ads are akin to products being too expensive - and unsurprisingly shift consumers towards "piracy".

It's a natural battle.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#240

Post by badpun »

JacobJans wrote: post #201
andrepd wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me ads are fundamentally about misleading you, manipulating you, or in short: making you do something that you wouldn't do otherwise. This to me is morally wrong on a base level. Advertisement is an attempt to attack/manipulate your vulnerable mammal brain to make you do something against your interest (be it buying a product, voting on someone, etc). In other words, to do something that you wouldn't do rationally…

This is a very immature view of advertising, that, unfortunately many advertisers share -- and it leads to scummy ads, with no eye on the long term relationship with the person viewing the ad. However, many ads are not deceptive in any way, and instead simply offer something of value to people who may be interested, without any deceit, psychological trick, or ulterior motive. Just because there are bad ads does not m…

If I were king, all ads would have to be black text on white background, containing ONLY the name of the product/service, its description and advertised merits. The description would have to consist of well-defined and falsifiable statements only.
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