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Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

nytimes.com

321–330 of 376 posts

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#321

Just in: the policy is now being ended: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/after-... > “Based on your feedback, today we’re launching new measures to more fairly and competitively compensate all our shoppers,” Mehta wrote. “Tips should always be separate from Instacart’s contribution to shopper compensation.” > Instacart also said it will compensate workers affected by the previously policy. “For e…

going back how far? I'll believe it when I see it.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#322
post #54

I think the fact that a gig economy company with fair (for lack of a better term) labor practices hasn't shown up yet (to my knowledge) is an indictment on the lack of vision from VCs and entrepreneurs. As a recent NYT article showed, we are moving towards a bifurcated economy split between service workers and high skilled work based on technology. The gig economy has the correct foresight in merging the two but due…

> I think the fact that a gig economy company with fair (for lack of a better term) labor practices hasn't shown up yet (to my knowledge) is an indictment on the lack of vision from VCs and entrepreneurs. Their vision is likely well aligned. The gig economy metes out little bits of work to a new underclass, while shifting nearly all risk onto them. This improves profit flow. The gig economy bypasses the American Labo…

It sounds like the mirror of a pay-day-loan. Maybe Uber could have all contractor banking done via pay-day-loans? I can only think that there needs to be a business need to take money out of a contractors bank account in real time.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#323
post #171

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

I have spoke up in similar situations several times at a number of companies. Not once was what I said a revelation or surprise. The business people knew already what the possible results would be. They had assessed it and decided to move on regardless. Clearly the potential results were worth the risk in their assessment. I have learned that my code of ethics are just not the same as a number of business persons'. T…

I've spoken up and actually had decisions reversed (or at least dropped), but I did so with hard data that the "better" (ethically) decision didn't materially hurt the bottom line, or that there were other actions we could take that would win back any lost revenue.

I've never known a company to make the ethical call when doing so materially hurts their earnings. To do so (and have it made public) would invite a shareholder lawsuit, so even if they did, they'd always couch it in language around long-term profitability or retaining employees. (Like Google did when they pulled out of China the first time, or when they repriced options for all their employees in 2009.) If you want companies to do the right thing, figure out how to become powerful enough that you can hold a metaphorical gun to their heads; their is no such thing as a "right thing" in business beyond that.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#325
post #243

> ...couriers have braved the elements, gotten by on meager wages and dealt with annoying customers, growling dogs and fifth-floor walk-ups, all for the chance of a big tip from a happy customer. This is not how I experience it working, in my area, with sites like GrubHub and the others. They ask for a tip UPFRONT, before delivery. I usually like to tip cash (for obvious reasons). There is an option for this, and the…

It's because drivers can and will reject orders with $0 tips. Drivers with GH get paid $3 + $.50 mileage as the crow flies. A $0 left on an order will be a total pay anywhere from $3-$5 depending on distance. It's absolutely not worth it to drive for $3-5 per order especially when a round trip for that order takes around 30 minutes. Also we don't get paid mileage for the trip to the restaurant. To add to the fire GH,…

So drivers can see the tip and food price before accepting an order? My understanding from reading a couple articles was that drivers could see how much they would get paid for the order but not see the breakdown of how much was the customer tip and how much was DD's contribution.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#326
post #104

I've never used Instacart, but I've used GrubHub and DoorDash and the like a couple of times -- I can never remember which one I have an account for, or which one has the restaurant I want, so it's always a hodgepodge. But one thing is clear as day. When I use DoorDash, the tip box says "100% of tip goes to Dasher". Look, I know all of these places either charge me a service fee, or if I'm not being charged a service…

I quit tipping on DD as soon as I found this out about a month ago because it'd almost always be less than $4.50, so wouldn't affect the dasher's bottom line anyway. If I start again it'll be cash, but I don't typically carry that in small bills. But I'm pissed . I've been a heavy DD customer for years and I'm an excellent tipper. Apparently I've been offsetting DD's costs for quite awhile now thinking "100% goes to…

I'm in the exact same boat as you. I've been a huge customer of DD's for years and only recently found this out after being confronted by Dashers who thought I'd lowballed them. I tweeted at DoorDash multiple times, and while I usually get some response from them this time it was radio silence. I'm livid.

I did, however, hear from a Dasher who was more than happy to clue me in on the policy[0]. From now on, I no longer tip inside the app and let the Dasher know I'll be tipping them in cash at the door. It's a pain for me, but I feel better knowing 100% of my tip actually went to them like it was supposed to.

[0]: https://twitter.com/iampbt/status/1089767531412213763

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#327
Yet another article about tip outrage that skirts the issue of how culturally propping up universal service industry tipping is propagating and prolonging predatory wage labor by service providers and restaurants. It's in restaurant management and DoorDash's best interests to keep the tipping culture alive and well because they can continue to pay effectively sub-minimum wage by preserving the tip-based wage flexibility the US legally provides them.

Oh well.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the government should be in the lottery business.

The argument in favor of this generally goes: if there wasn't a government lottery, there would be privately-run lotteries, and attempts to ban lotteries would just push them into the hands of organized crime. At least a government-run lottery will publish honest odds and pay out to winners, which private/criminal lotteries would less reliably do, and that minimizes the harm done by the lottery. You can apply basical…

They do sell drugs in Canada now, and it seems to be going quite well, actually. Maybe there's a case to be made after all, although, personally, I prefer the Portuguese model of decriminalizing everything.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#329
post #104

I've never used Instacart, but I've used GrubHub and DoorDash and the like a couple of times -- I can never remember which one I have an account for, or which one has the restaurant I want, so it's always a hodgepodge. But one thing is clear as day. When I use DoorDash, the tip box says "100% of tip goes to Dasher". Look, I know all of these places either charge me a service fee, or if I'm not being charged a service…

I quit tipping on DD as soon as I found this out about a month ago because it'd almost always be less than $4.50, so wouldn't affect the dasher's bottom line anyway. If I start again it'll be cash, but I don't typically carry that in small bills. But I'm pissed . I've been a heavy DD customer for years and I'm an excellent tipper. Apparently I've been offsetting DD's costs for quite awhile now thinking "100% goes to…

So tip them in person, like the pizza guy

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, we reward bad behavior by not having the hammer be swung down hard and fast. Look at the ridesharing companies, all of them started by defying local laws. Couple of people get assaulted here and there, doesn't matter as long as Silicon Valley gets it's money.

The hammer swings down fast in some cases. Look at Robin Hood's checking account debacle. The SEC, FDIC and SPIC do not play around. The problem is where regulations are enforced. At state level results may vary. At local level very few jurisdictions can out-battle a company with millions or billions in VC funding. Uber blocked local regulators in Portland from blocking rides: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-…

At some point, it becomes impossible to argue that taxi regulations were actually benefiting the public. Civil disobedience is a valid option in such cases, whether your name is Travis Kalanick or Rosa Parks.
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