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Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

nytimes.com

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Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#171

Post by Tactic »

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

I have spoke up in similar situations several times at a number of companies. Not once was what I said a revelation or surprise. The business people knew already what the possible results would be. They had assessed it and decided to move on regardless. Clearly the potential results were worth the risk in their assessment.

I have learned that my code of ethics are just not the same as a number of business persons'. This may explain, in part, why I have two failed businesses.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#172

Post by pas »

save_ferris wrote: post #93
Apocryphon wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who polices the VCs? It seems like they have no accountability, even financially speaking. If one investment fails they have nine more to reallocate towards, so to speak.

> Who polices the VCs? Great question. They benefit tremendously by minimizing their own risk and maximizing the leverage they have over founders they invest in.

The market, obviously. If they invest in shit startups, then eventually they will lose all of their money.

Now the problem is, what if people still use something and give their money to even if that service/company is unethical?

Is it unethical to make very bad employment deals with people who have no better opportunities on the job market?

Well, now that's where again people come in. Some people say, no, because if they don't like the job, they can start their own company (ehm, ehm, maybe that's why we are here, too many people trying to start stupid companies built on almost stealing from each other). Some people say, fuck no, that's just a race to the bottom Somalia.

Some people pitch NIT (negative income tax, a form of universal basic income). Some full blown direct action style socialism/anarchism. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#175

Post by tuxxy »

techsupporter wrote: post #164
cannonedhamster wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point and likely going to result in a massive class action that a few of these companies don't survive.

DoorDash has a mandatory arbitration clause (that I opted out of but most people don’t) so I fear the best we can hope for is a light tap from a state AG and a flimsy promise to “review our internal procedures” with no big change. It isn’t as though large numbers of people will stop using these services that deliberately abuse their “independent contractor” workers.

How do you arbitrarily opt out of mandatory arbitration clauses?

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#176

Post by kevin_b_er »

wuliwong wrote: post #94
bluedino wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not uncommon to tip your UPS/FedEx delivery person, or your USPS carrier. At least around the holidays.

I would guess that the ratio of the number of tips to the number of deliveries for UPS/FedEx/USPS is orders of magnitude lower than for Instacart/DoorDash/etc.

And those delivery drivers are paid a wage, unlike the $0.80 per hour w/o tips from instacart.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#178

Post by gamblor956 »

paulgb wrote: post #165
cannonedhamster wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point and likely going to result in a massive class action that a few of these companies don't survive.

At least in the case of DoorDash, they have an arbitration clause in their TOS that effectively quashes any attempts at a class action. Hopefully one day the US justice system will wake up to the fact that allowing companies to opt-out of the main mechanism preventing them from engaging in this sort of petty-crime-at-scale is not a good idea, but until then it's what we're stuck with.

State attorneys general are not bound by these TOSs.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#179

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

paulgb wrote: post #165
cannonedhamster wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point and likely going to result in a massive class action that a few of these companies don't survive.

At least in the case of DoorDash, they have an arbitration clause in their TOS that effectively quashes any attempts at a class action. Hopefully one day the US justice system will wake up to the fact that allowing companies to opt-out of the main mechanism preventing them from engaging in this sort of petty-crime-at-scale is not a good idea, but until then it's what we're stuck with.

I wonder if giving someone my credit card, having them add to DoorDash, then suing would be worth it.

I wonder if small claims court lawsuits could be used as precedent.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#180

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

Tactic wrote: post #171
crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

I have spoke up in similar situations several times at a number of companies. Not once was what I said a revelation or surprise. The business people knew already what the possible results would be. They had assessed it and decided to move on regardless. Clearly the potential results were worth the risk in their assessment. I have learned that my code of ethics are just not the same as a number of business persons'. T…

Unfortunately, we reward bad behavior by not having the hammer be swung down hard and fast.

Look at the ridesharing companies, all of them started by defying local laws. Couple of people get assaulted here and there, doesn't matter as long as Silicon Valley gets it's money.

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