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Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

nytimes.com

91–100 of 376 posts

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#91
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can give cash tips instead.

I wonder if those companies use the lack of tips as an indicator for not providing excellent service... and then use that as an argument to not use those drivers.

At least for DoorDash you tip ahead of time so it doesn't really make sense to associate the tip with the quality of the driver.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#92

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

I am sure someone would have said that. The problem is that Instacart and Door Dash are very low margin business and through tactics like this, they can probably stay afloat or make some (small) profit. I know it is difficult to empathize with their behavior and assume the worst but when you are competing with deep pockets such as Amazon and Uber Eats, it is important to ensure that your unit economics work out and that the next fund raising happens successfully. Otherwise, they will eventually die anyways.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say exactly without being privy to their conversations, but the aggressive growth pressure that young companies with VC funding face almost always factors in somehow. It's hard to truly expect companies to make the correct ethical decision in this scenario when the survival of founders is dependent on raising more and more money. The "grow now, profit later" model truly puts pressure on execs to take whatever…

Who polices the VCs? It seems like they have no accountability, even financially speaking. If one investment fails they have nine more to reallocate towards, so to speak.

> Who polices the VCs?

Great question. They benefit tremendously by minimizing their own risk and maximizing the leverage they have over founders they invest in.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#94
post #25

Why doesn't this problem exist when I order something from Amazon? Because there is no absurd idea that I should be tipping the UPS guy or anyone else involved in fulfilling my order. It makes much more sense for InstaCart to simply collect star ratings and offer bonuses for the employees who are going above and beyond. Considering how often the shopper has to call me about replacements, parking outside my building,…

It's not uncommon to tip your UPS/FedEx delivery person, or your USPS carrier. At least around the holidays.

I would guess that the ratio of the number of tips to the number of deliveries for UPS/FedEx/USPS is orders of magnitude lower than for Instacart/DoorDash/etc.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#95
post #30
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instacart workers have urged customers not to boycott the company, which would cut even further into their earnings.

This is exactly why I don't boycott WalMart. Because as abhorrent and their policies are, the last thing I want to do is put some poor person barely scraping by out of a job. The solution here is not to boycott these places, it's to use your power to lobby for better laws to protect the workers, which will apply evenly to all companies, including future companies that might try to take advantage of people.

Or you could support a competitor that treats their employees well, giving them more business so they can expand their business and hire the people that eventually leave Walmart...

This is why I avoid Walmart and Amazon, even if it hurts my bottom line.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An MBA would point out that in the this isn't a sustainable strategy, regardless of any concept of fairness. Backlash from customers and workers is virtually guaranteed to hurt long-term profits.

Serious question: are ethics taught in MBA programs, and if so, how? Generally speaking, how are MBA's taught to avoid making this very mistake?

Pardon my interruption, but I think a perfectly adequate response would be to counter by asking if ethics are taught in CS/CE programs (or what curricula have ethics prereqs)

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#97
post #2

The kick of the plot here is to not tip on Instacart as you're just handing money to VCs. Or maybe give the driver cash?

> Or maybe give the driver cash? "Gross. Who carries cash anymore?" Future headline: Millenials are killing physical cash. Jokes aside (as a millennial) this is not something I usually have readily available. I try to keep all my transactions digital but I may take money out just for tipping purposes.

To play into other stereotypes, plenty of hidden gem hole-in-the-wall restaurants in ethnic enclaves or overlooked neighborhoods that millennial like to Yelp about are cash-only.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#98
post #60

DoorDash is extremely helpful for me because I'm disabled and can't cook so it's really convenient for me to be able to order food for delivery when I don't have a caregiver around to cook food for me. I'm extremely disappointed by DoorDash's policies but because of my circumstances I can't just boycott. I live in a college town too, so most DoorDash drivers are students who are just barely getting by, so I'll be tip…

There are plenty of other delivery services. Grubhub, UberEats, and Caviar are a few off the top of my head.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#99
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? Who's to say someone didn't? All we know is they decided to steal tips, not that everyone thought it was a great idea.

The argument, especially for low-margin businesses like these delivery startups, is that the company might go under if financial tricks aren't in place. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Might as well take the path of least embarrassment and hope no one calls out the tricks.

> Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Surely that should be "Business goes under if you don't, executives go to jail for mass fraud if you do."

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#100
post #52
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instacart workers have urged customers not to boycott the company, which would cut even further into their earnings.

Can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either it’s not impacting workers as much as the article and our imaginations would lead us to believe, or it is. If it is, then yes voting with your wallet is 100% appropriate despite temporary disruption it might cause workers.

For these workers, it's really "neither have your cake nor eat it". They get screwed by Instacart and DoorDash stealing their tips, and then screwed further when they can't make as many deliveries because people boycott.

I'm not saying we should support shitty companies. But these boycotts ostensibly happen because we have empathy for workers. We shouldn't lose track of that empathy when workers talk about how the boycotts affect them.

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