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Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#101

Post by buserror »

rubicon33 wrote: post #97
buserror wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a bit of a burnout around 2006 -- I had worked my ass off on a fantastically complex framework, the pinacle of years of experience, and it was a joy. It was SO cool. There was an application on top, which was also pretty cool. And the marketing bods/management and so on more or less dragged the project off track, up to the point I didn't want to work on it at all, I quit, I left my 'baby' and had a hard 6 month…

Heh, respectfully, I think we're talking about two different kinds of burnout. The form I am referring to, builds steadily over time. It's not the result of some bad interaction with management, rather, it's the result of doing the "same" thing for 30 years. I recognize that the problem is in seeing it as the "same" thing. Yet, given our job as programmers is often to see the forest through the trees, to identify pat…

Well to be fair I went from doing well over 20 years of Mac programming with a lot of UNIX/Linux alongside to a semi-hardware developer with linux low level stuff, pure embedded and FPGA development...

There's LOADS of fields that you haven't done. I remember my first time trying to get my head around some VHDL code and I felt I was 12 years all over again looking at 6502 assembly code.

Make your horizon wider!

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#102

Post by wedowhatwedo »

Age 53. At my last job, I was doing React front end work. When I argued against Redux, Coffeescript and Typescript because our app didn't need them, I was told I wasn't a team player and that I wouldn't succeed in that company.

I now have a new job at much much less salary.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#103

Post by potta_coffee »

buserror wrote: post #80
rubicon33 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big money question is: How have you managed to stay passionate about your job? I just posted a comment in another thread about burnout. It's very common in our industry. I believe it's due to the Coolidge Effect. Aka, the brains inherent search for novelty. It's a struggle to not look at almost all programming tasks as just some variation of the same problem, if you've been doing this long enough. How do you keep…

I had a bit of a burnout around 2006 -- I had worked my ass off on a fantastically complex framework, the pinacle of years of experience, and it was a joy. It was SO cool. There was an application on top, which was also pretty cool. And the marketing bods/management and so on more or less dragged the project off track, up to the point I didn't want to work on it at all, I quit, I left my 'baby' and had a hard 6 month…

There's a certain point where you've been abused so much, you've GOT to let go. The reality is, we don't work on these projects in a vacuum. Rarely do we have full control and responsibility for the outcome. If you can't control something, you can't hold yourself accountable for its success or failure. I still do my best work but if I'm put in an impossible situation, my outlook is similar to yours.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#104

Post by fredcy »

moosey wrote: post #60

Everyone here is talking about their skillset, and I'm going to take another direction: appearance and interpersonal skills. There is ageism, yes, but I think a deeper problem is reaction to peoples appearance. If you are late twenties concerned about age, then hide it, starting now. * Always wear sunscreen when you are outside, regardless of race. It prevents skin aging, and you'll still tan and get Vitamin D regard…

I'm 60 and doing a combination of IT and app development work. I totally agree about the exercise part of this. Not so much to look younger (although it might help), but rather to have the energy and mobility of a younger person.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#105

Post by Diederich »

buserror wrote: post #20

I'm 49! I've been working since I'm 17 as a developer -- I think the KEY thing is to be valuable, and be able to change quickly BUT not as quickly as the snowflakes. Ignore the fad tech, get a good, serious, bulletproof base in actual computer science -- I mean, LOW LEVEL stuff--, that will help you learn ANYTHING computer related quickly, and continue surfing that wave with whatever tech you fancy might actually be…

Cool; I'm about the same age, been getting paid to do, for the most part, what is called 'devops' today since 1993, though unpaid a number of years before that.

I'll confirm and reinforce everything you're saying here.

Six weeks after I decided to move companies, last year, I had three excellent job offers to choose between, and even more that were less great but still doable.

> you should be GOOD

I like to think that I'm pretty ok at this. Being able to compare and contrast Linux top half and bottom half interrupt handlers all the way through optimizing a y combinator implementation during an interview leads to some good results.

To the other replies about how to stay passionate after so many years of 'basically the same things over and over': I don't have a good answer to that.

I did some amazing stuff earlier in my career, and I long desired to find a place where I could go even further, but I've come to realize that it's unlikely to ever come about again.

Perhaps it's kind of like 'grinding' in your favorite video game. Same stuff, over and over, mildly challenging. Take pride and feel good about getting it done, well, again and again.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#106

Post by robertAngst »

Diederich wrote: post #105
buserror wrote: post #20

I'm 49! I've been working since I'm 17 as a developer -- I think the KEY thing is to be valuable, and be able to change quickly BUT not as quickly as the snowflakes. Ignore the fad tech, get a good, serious, bulletproof base in actual computer science -- I mean, LOW LEVEL stuff--, that will help you learn ANYTHING computer related quickly, and continue surfing that wave with whatever tech you fancy might actually be…

Cool; I'm about the same age, been getting paid to do, for the most part, what is called 'devops' today since 1993, though unpaid a number of years before that. I'll confirm and reinforce everything you're saying here. Six weeks after I decided to move companies, last year, I had three excellent job offers to choose between, and even more that were less great but still doable. > you should be GOOD I like to think tha…

>I did some amazing stuff earlier in my career, and I long desired to find a place where I could go even further, but I've come to realize that it's unlikely to ever come about again.

Can you elaborate?

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#107

Post by diminoten »

lenticular wrote: post #95
fredbo22 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share this wisdom? I'm wrassling with these kontainers now and I'm wondering why people think they're so wonderful.

I personally think that in 10 years, people will look back on kubernetes and shake their heads.

Comments like these are so infuriating! You get to shit on a huge community with zero reasoning, and zero consequences for being wrong.

Your negativity is only rewarded if somehow you're right (which is more a result of broken clock syndrome than anything else), so you and people like you are incentivized to keep sniping from afar.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#108

Post by james_s_tayler »

buserror wrote: post #47
Chopsah2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got an "OpenDoc Kamp Kodabunch" sweatshirt.

Phoew that's cool! I have to say Opendoc always smelled wrong to me, so I stayed clear -- But I did implement the 'whose' descriptors in Applescript once, and I still have the scars to prove it :-) I wrote a lot of "Apple Telecom 3.0" that ran on most "powerbooks" back in 1995+ or so, you know, modems, faxes, voice mails and all these very high tech stuff :-)

It's almost like hearing a foreign language now.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#109

Post by buserror »

rchaud wrote: post #56
buserror wrote: post #20

I'm 49! I've been working since I'm 17 as a developer -- I think the KEY thing is to be valuable, and be able to change quickly BUT not as quickly as the snowflakes. Ignore the fad tech, get a good, serious, bulletproof base in actual computer science -- I mean, LOW LEVEL stuff--, that will help you learn ANYTHING computer related quickly, and continue surfing that wave with whatever tech you fancy might actually be…

Can I ask, with 32 years in the business, are you in a management (or less technical) position now, or still 'in the trenches'? Is there a difference in the likelihood of ageism in management roles v developer roles?

I'm not in management -- my philosophy has always been to try to be the tree that stands outside the forest, not the one IN the forest. In management I might make a good manager, or perhaps a crap, or average one, and where is my edge there?

My guess is that I'd be pretty average or less, given my patience threshold -- I've worked with fantastic managers before, I'm not them. I don't think there's much of a problem of age discrimination in managements, unless it's for places like startups and so on where "people" NEEDS to "look cool and startupy".

I'm a pretty effective mentor tho, and I seriously enjoy that -- I think it's a lot more "my place" than trying to manage/herd cats :-)

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#110

Post by souprock »

buserror wrote: post #32
WilliamLP wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a frigging EXPERT in dozens of stuff that would make people smile now (those who are old enough ;-)) I'd love to read your list. :)

I'll just tell you now I've got a T-shirt with "Copland Driver Kitchen" :-)

You have me beat, but I have a coworker who used paper tape. That is, computer data storage was via holes punched in a long strip of paper. Another coworker wrote Alternate Reality, which was a game for the Atari 800XL 8-bit home computer.

Finding these experienced people isn't easy. Many don't want to move. You can't just drop by a college and grab them in bulk. We'd hire more (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19055183 for "Who is hiring?" post) if we could just find them.

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