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Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#21

Post by mrspeaker »

decebalus1 wrote: post #8
zepolen wrote: post #3

Value. Are you valuable. You can be 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 it doesn't matter. If you are valuable, you will find a job no problem. The 50 year olds who complain are the ones that offer no value and have essentially 1 year of experience doing the same thing (badly) for 30 years.

I'm pretty sure you don't understand how ageism works. Or racism, sexism or any other 'ism for that matter. Because based on your logic, these problems don't exist anymore in the job marketplace.

Yep, it's far more insidious than just "it's a fairly-land meritocracy" that you believe when you're younger. I have been responsible for hiring a lot of people, and I catch myself judging older candidates before they've said anything: and I'm an old bastard myself!

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#22

Post by neolefty »

I'm 47, but my kids are reminding me 50 is coming soon!

I'm working as a web engineer — not a manager or even team lead — working remotely from the Midwest for a coastal company, and I'm pretty happy with it. All I can say is keep learning, be friendly, and delight in the energy of all you young people. I am not entirely sure why I have been hired, or even whether it was a good idea for my employer. So maybe stay humble too?

Maybe being remote prevents me from pinching the cheeks of adorable devs 25 years my junior. My advice: Don't pinch cheeks. Turns out Millennials don't like it. No matter how adorable those little non-grey-haired hackers are.

Anecdotally, the older I get, the less ambitious I get about my own career and the more interested in just helping out and doing things that make a difference. My self-discipline has become marginally better over the years, and my coding ability marginally worse. Definitely trending towards grandparent.

Things I especially like: interviewing, having a real-world impact, learning things, using cool new tools, helping out, justice.

Things I dislike: politics, jockeying for position.

Also, the whole "I've forgotten more than you've ever known about this field" feels true. But honestly thank goodness you didn't have to learn it, because a lot of it is irrelevant now.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#23

Post by paulrpotts »

I'm 51 and I have found that doing embedded and low-level programming seems to insulate me somewhat from age discrimination. I think in part that is because people expect programmers who work very close to the hardware, like me, to be geezers. Breadth of experience seems to help as well.

By comparison, trying to get a job in web or app development was a nightmare of interviewing with twenty-somethings in open plan offices, who gave me programming puzzles to solve on the spot, then turned on loud techno while I struggled to concentrate. Which honestly told me all I needed to know about what it would be like to work in their trendy consulting office.

But my opinion on all this might very well change if I lose this job... maybe there is an age "brick wall" at some point I won't be able to scale. I'm hoping not.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#24

Post by denzil_correa »

zepolen wrote: post #3

Value. Are you valuable. You can be 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 it doesn't matter. If you are valuable, you will find a job no problem. The 50 year olds who complain are the ones that offer no value and have essentially 1 year of experience doing the same thing (badly) for 30 years.

> The 50 year olds who complain are the ones that offer no value and have essentially 1 year of experience doing the same thing (badly) for 30 years.

Google Settles Age-Bias Lawsuit for Undisclosed Amount

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-05/google-se...

IBM targeted old people for lawyoffs

https://features.propublica.org/ibm/ibm-age-discrimination-a...

Intel accused of age discrimination

https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/28/17401892/intel-age-discri...

There seems to be a pattern here.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#25

Post by [deleted] »

zepolen wrote: post #19
module0000 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The 50 year olds who complain are the ones that offer no value So by your logic, anyone who is 50 or older - that complains - has no value? Real robust rating system you have there kiddo!

Reread the comment. You can be any age and provide value. You can be any age and NOT provide value.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#26

Post by WilliamLP »

buserror wrote: post #20

I'm 49! I've been working since I'm 17 as a developer -- I think the KEY thing is to be valuable, and be able to change quickly BUT not as quickly as the snowflakes. Ignore the fad tech, get a good, serious, bulletproof base in actual computer science -- I mean, LOW LEVEL stuff--, that will help you learn ANYTHING computer related quickly, and continue surfing that wave with whatever tech you fancy might actually be…

> I'm a frigging EXPERT in dozens of stuff that would make people smile now (those who are old enough ;-))

I'd love to read your list. :)

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#27

Post by simonsarris »

uptownfunk wrote: post #4

There is a technology called hair coloring, stack it with a hoodie and some well fitted slacks, roll up one of the ankle cuffs a bit. Talk like you've exited a startup and are just working for fun, or something to keep you interested, but not like you actually have to.

Agree 100%, it has blown me away my whole life how engineers downplay marketing and [product|personal] presentation in spite of the reams of data suggesting it has some of the best ROI possible of anything you can spend your time improving.

Do you want to make more money, get more connections, have everyone like you more and treat you better? It's as simple as buying some nicer shirts, getting regular haircuts, and eating better (which has its own host of plusses).

Some programmers are 55 and really good. They also have stains on their t-shirts, are overweight, and act morose all the time. In a perfect world this wouldn't matter for a job interview, but you are not interviewing or operating for a job in a perfect world.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#28

Post by paulrpotts »

uptownfunk wrote: post #4

There is a technology called hair coloring, stack it with a hoodie and some well fitted slacks, roll up one of the ankle cuffs a bit. Talk like you've exited a startup and are just working for fun, or something to keep you interested, but not like you actually have to.

Absolutely not. This is idiotic advice. I'm not paid to be pretty. I earned this gray beard and if you don't respect the years of experience it represents, you and your hipster brogrammer culture can fuck right off.

Re: Ask HN: Developers aged 50, how have you gotten around age discrimination?

#30

Post by anonuser123456 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #12
zepolen wrote: post #3

Value. Are you valuable. You can be 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 it doesn't matter. If you are valuable, you will find a job no problem. The 50 year olds who complain are the ones that offer no value and have essentially 1 year of experience doing the same thing (badly) for 30 years.

Precisely. I'm more valuable than someone with 10 years of experience. I produce working code faster (even if I don't work as many hours). I produce better designs. I produce fewer bugs. I'm worth more. If you are trying to hire me, and you want to pay me like I have 10 years of experience rather than like I have 30, you just selected yourself out as a candidate for my services. I will disagree with the parent on one…

I think modern embedded systems has a bias built in. To be productive, you have to be proficient in a _LOT_ of topics, many of which are not easy to come by experience wise. This tends to bias towards high experience.
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