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Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

nytimes.com

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Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#161

Post by aantix »

arandr0x wrote: post #156

I saw this when I arrived in America, and it's the reason I left. I take the bus and seeing literally every day that there were people with families who worried and laughed and were kind who spent 2 hours a day transporting themselves to service or manufacturing industry job when I sat in an air conditioned office making 3x their wages was making me feel terribly guilty. I eventually went back to a country with a soc…

Without incentives, there is no innovation.

And if everyone is entitled to the same portion of the pie, what’s the incentive to work harder? Seeing your neighbor put in a third of the effort and produce the same economic result is demoralizing.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#162

Post by naasking »

darawk wrote: post #67
echevil wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably most east Asian countries? Likely India as well.

Ya, all east asian countries, you're right. China is interesting especially to me though because, just anecdotally, there seem to be an unusually high number of Chinese female STEM graduates. Not sure what's going on there, but they seem to have solved the gender gap in STEM somehow. Could just be i've encountered an unusual sample too, though.

> Not sure what's going on there, but they seem to have solved the gender gap in STEM somehow

That's because you're not familiar with the actual data. Iran also has gender parity in STEM. The nordic countries have equal or worse gender ratios than America. It's called the gender equality paradox: the more gender equal a country, the less women choose STEM paths.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#163

Post by zimablue »

NoblePublius wrote: post #155

This guy will probably be feted across academia for his insight, even though it’s fundamentally the same argument made in The Bell Curve that gets Charles Murray banned from college campuses. Yes, the cognitive elite is a thing and no, they don’t work at Walmart. There is no answer to this problem, either.

There's nothing in this article that mentions "cognitive elite", it talks about education and skills. You brought that to the article completely on your own.

For what it's worth, I think that there are definitely innate differences in ability, but they're very much overstated and the education system is effectively money laundering for privilege. Education != innate ability in a world where elite colleges charge massive fees and all the selection processes are rigged every step of the way by the middle classes.

I have a decent job because I went to a decent uni, if I replay my life with the same ability and different parents who didn't work hard to squeeze me into the best school in the area or push me to value education I'd have no chance at all to be here now, I would be writing javascript for the local bakery for 20k pa. Good tech companies and finance all hire based on degrees.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#164

Post by saiya-jin »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #143
pnutjam wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent's point was we have made those strides in productivity, but the wages were denied us.

We have made those strides in productivity and they all went to rent seeking and taxation/regulation of small businesses and personal conduct (see also $150 red light cameras and $350,000 school admin salaries)

$150 for going on red light I have no problem with, do it few times and have driver's license revoked temporarily (as in Switzerland, on top of massive fee). That's how innocent people are killed, be it pedestrians or other drivers, by arrogant/DUI folks.

I understand that on empty roads at 3am in the middle of nowhere there are no consequences whatsoever, but generally that's a big infraction. Just watch few car crash compilations, ignoring lights is like 50% of the reason and the results are often very grim

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#165

Post by cagenut »

aantix wrote: post #161
arandr0x wrote: post #156

I saw this when I arrived in America, and it's the reason I left. I take the bus and seeing literally every day that there were people with families who worried and laughed and were kind who spent 2 hours a day transporting themselves to service or manufacturing industry job when I sat in an air conditioned office making 3x their wages was making me feel terribly guilty. I eventually went back to a country with a soc…

Without incentives, there is no innovation. And if everyone is entitled to the same portion of the pie, what’s the incentive to work harder? Seeing your neighbor put in a third of the effort and produce the same economic result is demoralizing.

you may be driven by spite and jealousy, but thats you buddy, don't project it on the rest of us.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#166

Post by anthony_romeo »

aantix wrote: post #161
arandr0x wrote: post #156

I saw this when I arrived in America, and it's the reason I left. I take the bus and seeing literally every day that there were people with families who worried and laughed and were kind who spent 2 hours a day transporting themselves to service or manufacturing industry job when I sat in an air conditioned office making 3x their wages was making me feel terribly guilty. I eventually went back to a country with a soc…

Without incentives, there is no innovation. And if everyone is entitled to the same portion of the pie, what’s the incentive to work harder? Seeing your neighbor put in a third of the effort and produce the same economic result is demoralizing.

I don’t think the poster above suggested that everyone is entitled to the same portion of the pie, so I’m not sure why you made that leap

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#167

Post by zimablue »

throwawayjava wrote: post #102
aphextron wrote: post #76

It is splitting our entire society in two. There are people who work in the old economy, actually doing things in the world. These people are still "tied to the land" in a sense. Their income isn't high enough to live alone, so they still maintain strong familial and neighborly bonds. Their work is physical (that doesn't mean unskilled or low paid, just that it requires physical manipulation), and requires them to ph…

This is a ridiculously false dichotomy. Plenty of folks in the midwest/south/appalachia/dakotas/etc. don't give a shit about their communities, and plenty of people in dense coastal cities care deeply about the people around them. And vice versa (as you noted). Weekend (or, anyways, short) vacations to Paris are a thing. On the other hand, they are also super cheap historically speaking ( Paris, stay in a hostel and…

You're using false dichotomy in a kind of odd way, it normally means that you have to choose between one of two positions or arguments, not that someone has stereotyped two groups.

I don't think anyone is saying that these classifications are perfect, but are you saying that they're not true even on average?

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#168

Post by alistairSH »

baroffoos wrote: post #118
gumby wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe in Universal Basic Income though, we live in a society and it is our duty to contribute to that society. There are plenty of things people do that are valuable to society yet are not captured in the GDP, and are thus not highly valued by contemporary society. They range from visiting and looking after elder parents, playing with your children, writing poetry etc. Then there are undervalued activitie…

I knew a guy who worked 6 months a year doing contract work and then spent the other 6 months on hobbies and personal projects. I remember asking him if he gets bored during those 6 months not working and he said to me "I don't base my life enjoyment off of making someone else money". That advice has really stuck to me and its really cool to see the electronics projects he builds in those 6 months.

My father had a co-worker who did this. 8 months in the DC office doing construction cost management consulting, 4 months in Montana hunting (he was into falconry, archery, and conservation of all the natural resources needed to sustain his hobbies).

He also used to raise his birds in the office (when they were newly hatched) - that was pretty darn cool as a 1st grader.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#169

Post by naasking »

xiphias2 wrote: post #113
whateveracct wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be special to do STEM work, but it's possible the attitude that you do is keeping us from learning how to better train the average person in it.

Average person with less intelligence is capable of doing the same thinking, just slower. I believe that the problem is that STEM classes aren't separated by the speed of thinking. Also easier for a person to accept that he/she just doesn't get math, instead of the fact that he/she is thinking slower than other people. I found myself thinking slower as I get older (and having more health problems), but so far I was a…

> Average person with less intelligence is capable of doing the same thinking, just slower

Intelligence is not just about the speed of thought. It's also about the depth of memory, the number of associations one has in one's internal model, and numerous other factors.

Consider a computer's memory that's halved. Suddenly it can run significantly fewer programs despite the fact that it rjnd at exactly the same speed.

Re: Tech Is Splitting the U.S. Work Force in Two

#170

Post by wil421 »

baroffoos wrote: post #118
gumby wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe in Universal Basic Income though, we live in a society and it is our duty to contribute to that society. There are plenty of things people do that are valuable to society yet are not captured in the GDP, and are thus not highly valued by contemporary society. They range from visiting and looking after elder parents, playing with your children, writing poetry etc. Then there are undervalued activitie…

I knew a guy who worked 6 months a year doing contract work and then spent the other 6 months on hobbies and personal projects. I remember asking him if he gets bored during those 6 months not working and he said to me "I don't base my life enjoyment off of making someone else money". That advice has really stuck to me and its really cool to see the electronics projects he builds in those 6 months.

Does this guy have a family and kids? I worked with a guy who does a similar thing. In fact his contract just ended. The only reason he said he’s able to is because he’s older, single, and doesn’t have kids.
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