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A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

story.californiasunday.com

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Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#31

Post by colechristensen »

m0zg wrote: post #18
empath75 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they scapegoat the workers who are powerless, instead of the employers, like Trump.

Except, of course, Trump is trying to get them to hire workers who are not powerless, and can legally demand the minimum wage and protection under US law at least.

Keep in mind that the reason it is being done is for appearances and popularity, not the actual underlying issue.

Most of the things you hear politicians talking about they don't care about beyond how the issue -- and what they say about it -- effects their power and electability.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#32

Post by m0zg »

8note wrote: post #30
m0zg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, of course, Trump is trying to get them to hire workers who are not powerless, and can legally demand the minimum wage and protection under US law at least.

huh? he's making the undocumented folks not powerless and able to demand at least minimum wage? I guess that would do a good job at making poor Americans more competitive against undocumented workers

He's trying to prop up the working poor by reducing labor supply. I mean it's either that or putting them on welfare. And I don't know about you but I'd rather they were able to take care of themselves. I'll pay a little more at the grocery store.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#33

Post by [deleted] »

m0zg wrote: post #32
8note wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh? he's making the undocumented folks not powerless and able to demand at least minimum wage? I guess that would do a good job at making poor Americans more competitive against undocumented workers

He's trying to prop up the working poor by reducing labor supply. I mean it's either that or putting them on welfare. And I don't know about you but I'd rather they were able to take care of themselves. I'll pay a little more at the grocery store.

[deleted]

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#34

Post by m0zg »

colechristensen wrote: post #31
m0zg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, of course, Trump is trying to get them to hire workers who are not powerless, and can legally demand the minimum wage and protection under US law at least.

Keep in mind that the reason it is being done is for appearances and popularity, not the actual underlying issue. Most of the things you hear politicians talking about they don't care about beyond how the issue -- and what they say about it -- effects their power and electability.

That's a cynical view to take, so no, I won't "keep in mind". There's nothing wrong about popularity. So far he's doing all right on the jobs front.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#35

Post by HillaryBriss »

Scramblejams wrote: post #19
empath75 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not gonna ship that water to California.

If the article is correct that water will become more valuable than oil, then of course you're gonna ship that water to California. The economics will mandate it. Now whether the article is correct about that prediction is another question. It's an understatement to say I'm skeptical. Desalination plants produce expensive water, but not that expensive...

I'm skeptical that this "water more valuable than oil" prediction will come to pass.

Currently, a thousand gallons of freshwater from a desalination plant costs between $2.50 to $5 to the end consumer in the US. By contrast, a thousand gallons of West Texas Intermediate crude oil costs around $2500. And oil is becoming more scarce as we burn through it.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-05-15/desalination-expensiv...

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#36

Post by Qworg »

m0zg wrote: post #32
8note wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

huh? he's making the undocumented folks not powerless and able to demand at least minimum wage? I guess that would do a good job at making poor Americans more competitive against undocumented workers

He's trying to prop up the working poor by reducing labor supply. I mean it's either that or putting them on welfare. And I don't know about you but I'd rather they were able to take care of themselves. I'll pay a little more at the grocery store.

It isn't sub-minimum though - farm labor rates in CA are $14+ - twice to three times minimum. There still isn't enough labor.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#38

Post by whyisthewhat »

m0zg wrote: post #18
empath75 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they scapegoat the workers who are powerless, instead of the employers, like Trump.

Except, of course, Trump is trying to get them to hire workers who are not powerless, and can legally demand the minimum wage and protection under US law at least.

His policies are designed to selectively terrorize migrant labor and make it impossible for them to have recourse to the state. This keeps wages low because no private businesses are seriously penalized for employing migrant labor, but the laborers themselves are at risk of being brutalized by the immigration authorities if they attempt to seek redress for unfair treatment by their employers.

The way to actually resolve the issue would be to aggressively enforce labor laws without regard to the worker's immigration status, because they would remove the incentive for private business to use migrant labor in the first place.

Re: A Kingdom from Dust (2018)

#40

Post by m0zg »

Qworg wrote: post #36
m0zg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's trying to prop up the working poor by reducing labor supply. I mean it's either that or putting them on welfare. And I don't know about you but I'd rather they were able to take care of themselves. I'll pay a little more at the grocery store.

It isn't sub-minimum though - farm labor rates in CA are $14+ - twice to three times minimum. There still isn't enough labor.

Is that with or without full-time benefits? And how do you know the "under the table" labor rates illegals get? Labor will be there if price of labor goes up. Price of labor will go up if supply is constrained. Economics 101. This is not a high skill occupation where there can be a genuine shortage of labor. This is way more elastic.
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