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EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

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Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#251

Post by FabHK »

hinkley wrote: post #222
hkmurakami wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still remember how horridly expensive cheese was in Japan. This is excellent news.

One of the weird, nearly constant cultural boundaries is fermented foods. I suspect even without the tariffs cheese will still be expensive in Japan. It doesn't really 'go' with a lot of the cuisine. I mean, if you handed me donburi with cheese in it I'd probably say, "Okay, that's weird but it could work so let me try it," but I'm wracking my brain trying to think what other dishes you could fit in it. Certainly eth…

> nearly constant cultural boundaries is fermented foods

Interesting point. I think with horror of the "1000 year old eggs" in China. Kimchi is somewhat more agreeable... somewhat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#252

Post by Asooka »

dragontamer wrote: post #192
cyphar wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TPP had many other issues though. Examples include criminal penalties for breaking DRM or disclosing trade secrets, and establishing an international tribunal that allows corporations to sue for monetary damages from a government that passes a law which they feel is discriminatory. (I know the US has trade agreements like this already, but it's a new thing for Australia -- and unfortunately we are now part of the…

The point of that was to stop Malaysia and Singapore from pirating movies and software. I think there's something to be said about the correct distrust of MPAA. But at the same time, Malaysia and Singapore were clear pirate hubs that were harmful to any IP based economy.

Well, from my point of view, copyright maximalism is much bigger theft than file sharing in Malaysia.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#253

Post by achamayou »

wcfields wrote: post #215
rjtavares wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downside of free trade agreements is well studied: while overall it's a net positive for the economies involved, there are some individual losers.

Biggest loser will be the domestic Japanese Camembert industry[1], as according to a Reddit poster[2] Japan only has 4 cheeses (Sandwich cheese, cheese that melts (とろけるチーズ), parmesan cheese (for pasta) and camembert). But that could turn around as consumers discover new cheeses and then incorporate cheese into their diet more. One thing I recall about Japan, specifically Tokyo, was how many French patisseries there w…

I used to get my supplies from Fermier [1]. Excellent but quite expensive.

[1] https://www.fermier.co.jp/c/shop_atago.php

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#255

Post by zeroname »

monetus wrote: post #239
zeroname wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free trade is great when applied evenly. Free trade is great even when applied unevenly.

This 'great' only applies to society as a super-organism. Are you really suggesting uneven trade has no casualties on the individual level?

Of course not. One could give any number of examples where a benefit for society takes precedence over that of the individual.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#256

Post by FabHK »

21 wrote: post #57
gardaani wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently I can order cheap products (less than 20€) from China without customs fees or VAT. The shipping cost is around 1€. It means that it is cheaper to buy from China than from my local store. Unfortunately, that is about to change soon (customs fees for all products from China). Having something like that between EU and Japan would definitely boost the trade. Edit: I just checked and the same no customs fees rul…

The shipping only costs 1€ because China is abusing the international post system - the shipment cost is subsidized from your own taxes. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2169144/ch...

Yeah. What I found particularly galling is that often it's cheaper to send something from Shenzhen to Europe (from aliexpress, say) than the 50 km over to Hong Kong. Arghh.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#257

Post by superpermutat0r »

pawelmurias wrote: post #160
tomp wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably meant to write allowing GMOs is pandering to special interest groups? https://qz.com/1524049/monsanto-is-at-the-center-of-a-plagia...

It's benefiting the special interest of GMO companies at the expense of the special interests of stupid people who are irrationally scared of them.

GMOs, together with massive animal agriculture are a black swan in the making. Let's modify the organisms, create billions of them, have them as a testing ground for bacteria and viruses, let the bacteria and viruses evolve to eventually kill the resistant individuals, then after it happens we need 10 more years until more than a thousand billion individuals produce a human targeting strain.

There is absolutely no scientific way anyone can measure the risk without the effect of time.

Not to mention that my story is only one outcome out of many downsides and it's already happening with antibiotics abuse in animal ag.

The avian flu is a good past example. The disease sparked from a population of animals we raise the most. Hundreds of billions of chickens were Petri dishes for the ultimate strain of mammal killers. Intuitively these kinds of situations are inevitable.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#258

Post by irrational »

avar wrote: post #224
cyphar wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TPP had many other issues though. Examples include criminal penalties for breaking DRM or disclosing trade secrets, and establishing an international tribunal that allows corporations to sue for monetary damages from a government that passes a law which they feel is discriminatory. (I know the US has trade agreements like this already, but it's a new thing for Australia -- and unfortunately we are now part of the…

What's your proposed alternative to this sort of international tribunal? To me it feels like obviously the correct solution, and e.g. the EU/EEA has this with the EFTA courts and the WTO has it with its courts. Point in favor: 1. It makes sense for a corporation in say Malaysia to be able to sue Australia over state subsidies, otherwise they need to convince their own governments to bring it up at the inter-state lev…

The people in the international tribunal come from somewhere. Wouldn't they still be biased toward the part of the world they come from?

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#259

Post by monetus »

zeroname wrote: post #255
monetus wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 'great' only applies to society as a super-organism. Are you really suggesting uneven trade has no casualties on the individual level?

Of course not. One could give any number of examples where a benefit for society takes precedence over that of the individual.

You seem like an awfully reasonable person. I figure that I should say what prompted my response was having read about agrarian suicides blamed on subsidized goods, India in particular. A quick search makes it seem pretty common.

Re: EU and Japan create world's biggest free trade zone

#260

Post by andrewmutz »

afiori wrote: post #228
avar wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your proposed alternative to this sort of international tribunal? To me it feels like obviously the correct solution, and e.g. the EU/EEA has this with the EFTA courts and the WTO has it with its courts. Point in favor: 1. It makes sense for a corporation in say Malaysia to be able to sue Australia over state subsidies, otherwise they need to convince their own governments to bring it up at the inter-state lev…

The presence of a central court that can regulate goverment that act rashly is one thing, to allow individual companies to sue governments is another.

We've had this for a long time in NAFTA and it hasn't been a big deal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlem...

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