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Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

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Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#161
post #159
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that they report differently, but that they fixate on a particular part of the whole picture, and emphasize it beyond all proportion, while neglecting other parts of the picture. It's like if you asked somebody to describe an elephant for you and they'd spend 99% of the time on its tail, describing it in a minute detail up to each hair on its end, and then spending only a couple of words on the res…

You think the other parts are important because you don't like the tail. But say, do you look forward to daily reports in your newspaper how on XY street there was no traffic accident yesterday? Or that no criminal escaped from YZ prison last month? It's perfectly legitimate to focus on the interesting parts. You want to learn about an elephant's anatomy? Read a biology textbook, not journalism.

> You think the other parts are important because you don't like the tail.

Thanks for a case study. That's exactly what the press does - describe only the tail and call everyone who objects tail-phobes. No, I'm not going to pay for such baloney. If they find advertisers gullible enough to pay for it - good for them. Otherwise, good riddance.

> It's perfectly legitimate to focus on the interesting parts.

Of course. It's also perfectly legitimate for me not to pay for it if I'm interested in whole picture, not tail hairs. Let the tail hair enthusiasts finance it.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#162
post #92

A few complaints I share with the other people in this thread: - It's not clear that even reputed newspapers like NYTimes/WaPo produce quality content consistently. As someone in tech I can clearly see what they get and what they don't. Extrapolating it - it's not at all clear they understand economics or foreign policy or policy impact or environmental concerns and how to address them ...etc. - Bias: every single on…

> At least present news as it is? This is exceptionally difficult. My favorite example is choosing which photo to run for a story. Let's say a photographer take photos of Trump at an event. He has a photo of Trump smiling, a photo of Trump frowning, a photo of Trump scowling and a photo of Trump laughing. Which one is correct? They are all technically correct because they happened, but they all convey different tones…

I think this is a common objection, but is it really so reasonable? Why show any image of ephemeral emotion at all? If you must include not strictly necessary multimedia, something that would be obvious would be a long range wide-angle picture of the entire venue.

It's similar to when people try to claim that journalism without bias in writing is not possible. No, it's very possible. See articles of the New York Times from decades ago. This [1] is the first article on what would become "Watergate" from the NYTimes. The article does nothing but provide a detailed and objective recounting of all information available. There is no speculation, and I certainly can't tell anything about the author's biases, political leanings, etc. And keep in mind that this is a huge event - that is what would eventually lead to the impeachment of Richard Nixon. That tempered and impartial reporting, over decades, is what gave the New York Times the reputation that it's rapidly destroying today. Imagine if that article was written by the New New York Times of today.

The problem of course is that that article is 'boring'. It's not going to drive a million clicks and be shared on social media sites getting those upvotes to get to the top which leads to even more clicks and even more money. Hacker News is definitely higher brow than most social media sites. Regardless, this [2] is a list of all submissions to this site from the New York Times. Go and see what gets upvoted and eventually makes its way to the front page (following are all 30+ point submissions from first page):

- Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing (nytimes.com)

- Opinion: A.I. Could Worsen Health Disparities (nytimes.com)

- Locast, a Free App Streaming Network TV, Would Love to Get Sued (nytimes.com)

- This is Your Brain Off Facebook - study offers glimpse of unplugging (nytimes.com)

- Another Side of MeToo: Male Managers Fearful of Mentoring Women (nytimes.com)

- Foxconn Is Reconsidering Plan for Manufacturing in Wisconsin (nytimes.com)

And so on. It's frequently sensationalized and hyperbolic reporting that often even starts the ball rolling with a fake title. No, AI isn't going to worsen health disparities. No, no company wants to get sued. And no, male managers are not fearful of mentoring women. And it's only downhill from there. Even the articles that seem real, often quickly expose they're just click grabbers. For instance the "Foxconn is reconsidering plan" states. The lead paragraph states,

"It was heralded a year and a half ago as the start of a Midwestern manufacturing renaissance: Foxconn, the Taiwanese electronics behemoth, would build a $10 billion Wisconsin plant to make flat-screen televisions, creating 13,000 jobs. President Trump later called the project “the eighth wonder of the world.” Now that prospect looks less certain."

Several paragraphs later you get, "Foxconn said that it remained committed to creating 13,000 jobs in Wisconsin and that it was “moving forward with plans to build an advanced manufacturing facility.”" In other words they are doing what they said they would do. This is not meaningful or good reporting. But it gets those clicks, and that's all that matters now a days.

[1] - https://www.nytimes.com/1972/06/22/archives/4-being-hunted-i...

[2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=nytimes.com

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#163
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's better following individual journalists via twitter or whatever instead of the organization itself for quality content for subjects you like to read about. Personally, I use the main site just to scan headlines and see if there's anything interesting. Everyone's biased, but I don't think I'm more of an objective thinker than a trained journalist who's taken classes to study it and write about it specifically. I…

Maybe journalists should go out on their own via Patreon etc.?

But not Patreon. Patreon probably will shut them down after the first controversial article. If you want journalistic freedom and independence, relying on Patreon is like investing with Bernie Madoff.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#164
post #92

A few complaints I share with the other people in this thread: - It's not clear that even reputed newspapers like NYTimes/WaPo produce quality content consistently. As someone in tech I can clearly see what they get and what they don't. Extrapolating it - it's not at all clear they understand economics or foreign policy or policy impact or environmental concerns and how to address them ...etc. - Bias: every single on…

> At least present news as it is? This is exceptionally difficult. My favorite example is choosing which photo to run for a story. Let's say a photographer take photos of Trump at an event. He has a photo of Trump smiling, a photo of Trump frowning, a photo of Trump scowling and a photo of Trump laughing. Which one is correct? They are all technically correct because they happened, but they all convey different tones…

Use a montage of all four. That conveys the range of emotions of the event.

The journalistic emphasis in selecting just one ( viewpoint, photo,lede ) is partly why the news is so broken.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#165

A few complaints I share with the other people in this thread: - It's not clear that even reputed newspapers like NYTimes/WaPo produce quality content consistently. As someone in tech I can clearly see what they get and what they don't. Extrapolating it - it's not at all clear they understand economics or foreign policy or policy impact or environmental concerns and how to address them ...etc. - Bias: every single on…

> For all these reasons, I have got rid of my NYT & WaPo subscription to FT now and I can't be happier. I think you have a typo. Are you saying that you switched to FT (Financial Times), or that you got rid of the FT as well? Anyway, if you are a US-based reader, one way to avoid some of the bias and noise is to subscribe to a non-US paper. You don't have reporters and columnists trying to sway voters, because that's…

Typo. I switched to the FT for the exact reason you mentioned - at least somewhat neutral third-party perspective.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#166
post #161
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the other parts are important because you don't like the tail. But say, do you look forward to daily reports in your newspaper how on XY street there was no traffic accident yesterday? Or that no criminal escaped from YZ prison last month? It's perfectly legitimate to focus on the interesting parts. You want to learn about an elephant's anatomy? Read a biology textbook, not journalism.

> You think the other parts are important because you don't like the tail. Thanks for a case study. That's exactly what the press does - describe only the tail and call everyone who objects tail-phobes. No, I'm not going to pay for such baloney. If they find advertisers gullible enough to pay for it - good for them. Otherwise, good riddance. > It's perfectly legitimate to focus on the interesting parts. Of course. It…

"I don't care about it" is a fundamentally different thing than "they are biased".

Sure, don't pay for it. I don't pay for Magic: The Gathering cards. But I also don't troll message boards how WotC deserve to die because they neglect XBox games, thus showing their bias towards Collectible Card Games.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#167
I've just been reading this: https://quillette.com/2019/01/30/the-death-of-a-dreamer/

Basically, a story of a person driven to suicide by biased, sensationalized and unfair coverage. To say it doesn't make me sympathize with the members of the outlets committing the deed is a large understatement. While I understand that not everybody in the press is like that, such things are considered totally acceptable, and people doing this would probably be then welcomed to work in any other press outlet. Until the time that producing such baloney has real consequences enforced by the people in the industry, I would have very little sympathy for them complaining about declining respect - and declining money that comes with it.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#168

Reading the comments here, I am surprised that so many comments are saying that the New York Times and mainstream media in general are fake news. I'm no fan of the NYTimes (I think it is too much filler and not enough substance) but I'm curious as to what commenters think is real news or what makes the NYTimes fake news.

Most recent fake news example: MAGA hat kid.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#169
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Newspaper I paid for reported falsely > they charged the parents So the newspaper just reported the fact that they had been charged? > From that day I learned of fake news. You learned to label things you don’t agree with as fake news.

I'm more than willing to bet that the newspaper vilified the parents. It seems to be happening more and more frequently.

Yes the paper vilified the parents who had done nothing wrong. Kick them when they are down sort of thing to sell more papers.

Re: Want to Stop Fake News? Pay for the Real Thing

#170
I wish I could pay more fine grained subscriptions. If I get a local newspaper, much of the content is national or international news, and sports. I don't want any of that from them. I already have a New York Times subscription and I'm not into sports.

The ideal service I see is something that bundles a local news source with a national and international news source.

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