Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#101

Post by mikeryan » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:02 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #81

_bxg1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

If you think they're "very clearly laid out", can you quote the relevant sections, and definitions, from the terms that make it so? I've been searching, and asking, and not seen them yet.

Except as set forth in Section 2.1, You may not use, distribute or otherwise make Your Internal Use Applications available to Your Customers or to any third parties in any way (excluding Your Internal Use Application that is for use on macOS)

It’s behind the developer wall but the whole thing is here. https://download.developer.apple.com/Documentation/License_A...

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#102

Post by the_duke » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

outlog wrote: post #64

rising-sky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar concerns. I think this might, in the long term, be detrimental to Apple if companies begin to revolt against their overarching, seemingly totalitarian power regardless of if the intent is noble. As mentioned in a separate Verge article- "One giant platform declared another giant platform’s market research program inappropriate, then disappeared it with a Thanos-style finger snap" also from same article, attri…

"Apple can simply decide to prevent people from running code on their phones." no - you are free to run any code on YOUR phones with the enterprise program - you are clearly not free to run any code on OTHERS phones using this program..

That doesn't change the point.

As a user, I can not choose what code to run on my iPhone.

The only way to run a non-official app would be if the app was open source: put it in testflight for your personal use.

This is the main reason I have sworn off all Apple devices.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#103

Post by johnsea » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

_bxg1 wrote: post #51

rising-sky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar concerns. I think this might, in the long term, be detrimental to Apple if companies begin to revolt against their overarching, seemingly totalitarian power regardless of if the intent is noble. As mentioned in a separate Verge article- "One giant platform declared another giant platform’s market research program inappropriate, then disappeared it with a Thanos-style finger snap" also from same article, attri…

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

Apple should not have the right to enforce those conditions to begin with. Same as they should not be allowed to kick out apps from their whole platform on a whim.

Inacceptable. Such a company should not be allowed to do business in EU. Much worse than what happened with Microsoft in the 90ties.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#104

Post by hnnh44 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #26

dombili wrote: post #4

I don't want to pass judgment on whether Google (or in the previous case, Facebook) was in the wrong, but it doesn't sit well with me that Apple wields so much power on what software their phones can run after it sells them. You may very well think that they're using their power sparingly and benevolently, but who is to say that will be the case next time around?

With Apple's devices, and to a lesser extent Google's, there isn't a software distribution channel apart from the one sanctioned from up high. That being said, the official channels are sanctioned and sponsored by Apple (or Google) and so it is their reputation on the line when it comes to malicious or questionable Apps. So I can completely understand Apple (or Google) removing certs or banning companies for violatin…

I disagree with your argument as a whole.

My device is little more to me than something to run a web browser. I despise native apps. Facebook and Googles apps can - and should IMO - be run from a browser without crossing over into my personal contacts and photos.

Apple has zero authority over who I contact or what content I access over the web.

With any luck, this drives development back towards the web. I haven't had Facebook on my phone in years because their mobile layout is unbearable and their apps are invasive.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#105

Post by snazz » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

dewey wrote: post #38

rising-sky wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar concerns. I think this might, in the long term, be detrimental to Apple if companies begin to revolt against their overarching, seemingly totalitarian power regardless of if the intent is noble. As mentioned in a separate Verge article- "One giant platform declared another giant platform’s market research program inappropriate, then disappeared it with a Thanos-style finger snap" also from same article, attri…

Don’t quote text with code blocks please, it’s unreadable on mobile.

At least on iOS, you can scroll sideways (awkwardly) to read this kind of text.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#106

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

pbalau wrote: post #55

zepto wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting there was a child labor law violation as well as a breach of contract?

I'm wondering if either Apple is in the wrong, or FB needs a better legal team. By FB legal team I mean those people that should point out when things are not legal.

> either Apple is in the wrong, or FB needs a better legal team

That's your only two options? Sounds like you've already made your decision.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#107

Post by RobLach » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:04 PM UTC

_bxg1 wrote: post #3

I feel less vengeful satisfaction from this one, but I respect that they're applying their rules consistently. I just hope it doesn't backfire. On a totally personal level, I'd rather Facebook feel the hurt for its audacity than Apple be forced to backtrack because they made too many enemies.

What's Google going to do? Make their own phone?

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#108

Post by robarr » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:04 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #90

_bxg1 wrote: post #3

I feel less vengeful satisfaction from this one, but I respect that they're applying their rules consistently. I just hope it doesn't backfire. On a totally personal level, I'd rather Facebook feel the hurt for its audacity than Apple be forced to backtrack because they made too many enemies.

It's worth bearing in mind that Google pay Apple billions of dollars a year to be the default search engine on iOS. To my eyes, Apple clearly have the upper hand in this relationship. https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3063669/google-is-...

let’s not be naives... apple is happy getting billions of dollars from google, who use this data for exactly the same thing than facebook, and it is much less transparent to the user that the opt in from the facebok app. There are no saints here even if apple has a privacy stance far better for us users than the other two parties.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#109

Post by roywiggins » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:04 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #39

Skunkleton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true only in the most technical of senses. Practically, Apple has near complete control over what is allowed to execute on an iOS device.

Excluding technical users, Google Play Services is the same. And their grip only tightens over time.

Fortnite is only available on Android via sideloading, and I don't expect that will slow down Epic Games much.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#110

Post by nostrademons » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:04 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #90

_bxg1 wrote: post #3

I feel less vengeful satisfaction from this one, but I respect that they're applying their rules consistently. I just hope it doesn't backfire. On a totally personal level, I'd rather Facebook feel the hurt for its audacity than Apple be forced to backtrack because they made too many enemies.

It's worth bearing in mind that Google pay Apple billions of dollars a year to be the default search engine on iOS. To my eyes, Apple clearly have the upper hand in this relationship. https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3063669/google-is-...

Android has 85% of the worldwide smartphone market. Apple doesn't exactly have the upper hand in the relationship, but they have enough leverage to make it sting if they decide not to cooperate and to force a reasonable settlement.

In my mind, a reasonable settlement includes not installing spyware on users' iPhones through the enterprise development program, so it looks like they're doing precisely that.