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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#661

Post by flyingpenguin »

on_and_off wrote: post #621
muppetman wrote: post #127

It's funny (to me, anyway) that this sort of things affects only America (and I guess Canada?) This odd culture you have there of tipping and how it's so tightly integrated into your society. As a non-American I had to read the article a few times to understand what the problem was - I thought this was just how tipping worked in the US. I always read of service workers who only manage to "stay afloat" by the tips the…

I have moved to the US not that recently. The tipping system still baffles me (and I never know when I am supposed to tip or not .. ) From what I gathered, it comes from the prohibition as a way to supplement hotels and restaurants personnel wages (since they were making less in that context). Why it persisted to nowadays and has been extended to many service works baffles me to no end. Taxes are also added at checko…

We have also obfuscated what you make. Combined its very strange.

You could tell someone they get a new job paying $30/hour and you are selling them this house for $10/hour. After everything is said and done, those numbers could be the same... what?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#662

Post by smileysteve »

andai wrote: post #634
smileysteve wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped Waiters and waitresses HATE to NOT be tipped in a world where it's their livelihood. And studies have shown that this leads to racist, classist, and sexism within the service industry. - Studies show that non-caucasians receive worse service because they are perceived as likely to tip less. - Studies show that a high class restaurant server gets more in tips than a medium cl…

Following that last point, it sounds like customer preference is shaping the demographics. If people prefer to be served by women, and tip them more, the field will skew female.

The first one is to show that both customer preference and perceived customer action affect tipping. In many ways these have self enforcing realities.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#663

Post by manigandham »

kamaal wrote: post #611
manigandham wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and meanwhile these workers don't get paid anything. There are ways to fix things without shutting it all down.

>>There are ways to fix things without shutting it all down. Same arguments were used to suppose slavery. If we make slavery illegal, where will slaves work apart from cotton farms? There are other jobs to do, it doesn't mean we have to allow blatant injustice to go on, in exchange for profits. All the while using a moral arguments to justify it.

My issue is claiming moral righteousness of the struggle of shopping for your own food after using a luxury shopping app. I pointed out that the article itself asked customers to use a workaround so both sides get what they want.

Frankly I don't care about this company but equating this to slavery just comes across as more of the same virtue signaling.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#664

Post by parthdesai »

afterburner wrote: post #653
parthdesai wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hide a price rise? Food prices have gone up since increase in minimum wage last year, and default tip option is 18% at majority of the places. Oh and that 18% counts the 13% tax, so you are tipping more than 18%.

Hide as in not raise the menu prices as much, by letting expected tips go up, letting tips pay for more of the cost. The end result is of course higher prices, but the sticker shock is lower on the menu.

Ah okay, that i agree with.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#665

Post by lenticular »

nerpderp83 wrote: post #512
lenticular wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is being downvoted, as you absolutely are not wrong about this. They are independent contractors who entered into a contract just like a restaurant could contract with a food supplier. They aren't employees in the least as far as the law is concerned.

How and why are you so vehemently defending instacart when it comes to WA state law?

I'm not defending Instacart, I'm just pointing out legal realities. Many folks in this thread are severely mistaken about employment law. Just because something is morally wrong doesn't mean its illegal. I'm from Washington as well. I know a decent amount about employment law here.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#666

Post by lenticular »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #518
lenticular wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really probably doesn't add up to fraud. There's a difference between being scummy and crime. This should be illegal of course, but it really probably isn't. Restaurants illegally take tips from their employees all the time, which would be a fraud against customers in the same way as this case. However, they don't get into trouble for fraud against customers, but wage theft. That of course doesn't apply to Insta…

Would customers give the money if it were not labeled a "tip"? No. Is it a tip? No. Does Instacart gain something of value from this deception? Yes. That is textbook fraud.

No, that really doesn't follow.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#667

Post by throwaway415415 »

tareqak wrote: post #580
throwaway415415 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. Most people I know in SF, including me, don't tip. Waiters here are way more used to it and don't necessarily expect it.

I for one wasn't aware of a no-tip culture in San Francisco. I would totally not do it provided I was absolutely sure that this culture was a thing.

You should start this in your city! We call "wasters" the waiters that expect a tip here.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#669

Post by GreenToad5 »

kakarot wrote: post #646
masonic wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow my responsibility Right-to-work state or not, I know if no state in which that $20 clawback (as you describe it) was legal.

I have no doubt it was considerably illegal, however I would have been terminated immediately in a town where finding another job without a vehicle or parents would have been impossible, and since I was living on my own as a minor at this time it was pretty important that I maintained income. After several more undoubtedly illegal maneuvers by a new manager to fire me and other waitstaff so that he could replace them…

You all are being duped into contrived outrage. The example given in the OP link is very misleading and it is quite obviously cherry picking (to spark emotion) and is actually an outright lie. The truth is that Insticart actually pays a $10 minimum per delivery (this isn't even mentioned in the OP link) So how did this person make 80 cents an hour? The delivery was 0.7 miles and took 69 minutes. Ironically, under Insticart's previous policy, this delivery person would have made essentially the same amount. People making deliveries in dense urban areas (especially during traffic hours) can actually make far more than they used to.

I am not sure why delivering 6 bags of groceries took over an hour in this case. It is entirely possible however that they made several other deliveries in between Wegmans and this location (making a $10 minimum for each). It is possible that this person actually made $50+ during this 69 minutes.

Source for more details of new policy: https://www.miamiherald.com/site-services/new-newsletters/bu...

So is not a typical scenario. I could put together an article just as misleading showing that Insticart pays a mint...

I don't like when people try to mislead me. Perhaps the fact that the tip is not going directly to the delivery person is offending some of your sensibilities. This is quite legal. Many states have done this for the past 80 years. I don't know how residents of states that practice this are surprised. All restaurants and other service industry locations you frequent do the same.

Being a food delivery person, a restaurant server or for that matter a McDonald's employee is not a skilled labor position and has never been a job someone should aspire to feed a family off of. We have people busting their butts, putting themselves through college, working their way up the ladder. We have 50k skilled labor jobs vacant in this country that pay a good wage and even offer training. People used to move across the country for these jobs. They used to leave their grandma's basement and go make something of themselves. Now we just have them making a bunch of noise over McDonald's not paying a Living Wage. Grow up. This world should not reward the lazy, it results in ever increasing mediocrity.

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/25/605092520/high-pa...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathycaprino/2018/08/30/dirties...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/05/the-us-labor-shortage-is-rea...

https://www.google.com/search?q=the+us+has+vacant+skilled+la...

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#670

Post by ohithereyou »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #293
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm grateful for your response. I especially appreciate the "We can be concerned about more than one thing at a time." That's useful language I can use in the future. I'm wondering what could be possible if a group of people (say, some in prison?) started saying "We peacefully revoke consent to be governed this way and request immediate transformative justice in the form of a justice system that allows us to craft ou…

Ok, I’ll be that guy... here we go: The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real…

Bill Hicks on advertising is great too, especially when he equates it to pornography.
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