A portion of y’all are 20 somethings who do not know real life. Refrain from giving life advice.
Wasn't that the whole point of this: not to discriminate based on age?
64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
241–250 of 315 posts
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#242So here's some hiring anti-patterns I've seen, it's not just millennial managers, but I've seen these patterns in lots of companies and interviews. 1. Managers that want to hire people they could be best friends with. Drinking buddies, social media socialites, etc. Don't confuse this with hiring their best friends, they just feel more comfortable around people that they could socialize with. 2. Managers that don't wa…
Strongly disagree with #4. If you stay in middle management you are basically the easiest target for company "re-structuring" and your position will be made obsolete in a moment - as you are expensive, visible and easily replaceable with a more enthusiastic/younger/cheaper/less vocal individuals. I have seen it many times, such people are unemployable after years of management on this level.
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#243He knows where is the problem but does not use this knowledge to take a proactive stance. "yes I know that I'm old, BUT shouldn't be a problem for the job because... (I keep learning, update my skills often, can do X) ... etc, etc"
>> take a proactive stance What would that entail?
Address the point in the first minutes of the interview and turn it into an advantage.
If the other part is nervous about your age, talk casually about how this will not be a problem. Be humble, calm, and redirige the conversation toward focusing in your best skills, from more modern to more old techniques. Skills that you can offer because you are not so young as the other candidates, and you love your job enough to keep trying even if you not became an unstable rockstar/diva programmer.
Agree that dying the hair a little, at his home would help. Just to pass from all white to some shade of grey. A 64 man with silky black hair would look ridiculous.
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like that's conflating actual meritocracy with an exploited/fake form of meritocracy. Actual meritocracies are rare, but that doesn't mean we should redefine "meritocracy" to be the the distorted (and more common) version of it.
Please provide an example of an actual meritocracy so we can educate you that it does not exist.
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Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#245Unsatisfied expectations of the interviewer? Maybe it's better to list full experience, instead of limiting to 20 years? And mention the age. To prepare them better, rather than surprising. At least he would need to spend less time on interviews with people not ready to hire a 64 year old, and only talk to people who are ready.
That is not a good advice. If you wait for this ideal role for your skills/age - it might never happen. They will not agree you are an ideal candidate even if you tick each checkbox from your perspective (or someone else was quicker or cheaper or whatever). One should try every opportunity as the things are very often unpredictable in the job search quest.
IMHO the opportunity reduces if you plan to surprize them at the in person interview by the difference between the impression your resume makes and the reality.
They invited a different guy than shows up at the interview - it's difficult to call an opportunity.
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Serving food is more than honest IMO, but still a bit of a waste.. Also it seems a lot of capable coders are struggling with harsh if not inhuman business structures. Maybe regroup and form a nice company of nice people.
I like this comment; seems like you could make a pretty good company from the older talent that isn't picked up by the young companies. In terms of pure competition, you could give them all a run for their money with the lifelong knowledge bit.
I've seen something similar where a company made a spot for themselves hiring aging cobol programmers and making pretty good money contracting with other companies. I will try to find a link to the article I read.
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
In today's world of agile development, I haven't met any project managers worthy of anything. I feel that strong product managers are capable of managing development as well. I can't believe there are actual people getting paid to move JIRA tickets around full-time.
It's unfortunate. Especially in agile, a good project (err.. product...) manager is worth their weight in gold. I have to be honest, I've had my hand slapped here on HN for conflating project managers with product managers. I admit that I do this because from an agile software development perspective you need a variety of skills. One of the biggest problems I've seen on agile projects is a lack of analysis. Often "ag…
what is the difference between a project and a product manager? a lot of what your describing sounds like an engineering manager or ever lead developer to me.
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#248I feel bad for the guy because my dad goes through the same thing, being in IT and being 66, it's hard for him to find anything.
But stop blaming everything on millennials, damn it. We didn't create age bias and blaming millennials for everything is such a cop-out that ignores real issues. Latching onto this idea that millennials are out to get you "because millennials" is extremely toxic and is the reason why there's such a generational divide.
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Meritocracy is a lie used by the privileged. I don't understand this point of view. It sounds like, by calling it a lie, your real complaint is the ways attempts at meritocracy have fallen short of being an actual meritocracy. That being the case, isn't meritocracy still the correct ideal that we should be doing a better job of striving for? If this is not how you feel, what is the word for the appropriate assignme…
> That being the case, isn't meritocracy still the correct ideal that we should be doing a better job of striving for? I would actually say no, at least when it comes to when arguments for a meritocracy are used as arguments against redistribution of wealth from the more "meritocratic" to the less. Consider, as a thought experiment, if instead of features like intelligence, communication skills, self-confidence, etc.…
Spud Webb was short, but a helluva player.
Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Meritocracy is a lie used by the privileged. I don't understand this point of view. It sounds like, by calling it a lie, your real complaint is the ways attempts at meritocracy have fallen short of being an actual meritocracy. That being the case, isn't meritocracy still the correct ideal that we should be doing a better job of striving for? If this is not how you feel, what is the word for the appropriate assignme…
> That being the case, isn't meritocracy still the correct ideal that we should be doing a better job of striving for? I would actually say no, at least when it comes to when arguments for a meritocracy are used as arguments against redistribution of wealth from the more "meritocratic" to the less. Consider, as a thought experiment, if instead of features like intelligence, communication skills, self-confidence, etc.…
I'm not sure that "fairness" is exactly the right ideal if our goal is the most health and wealth for the most people? I want my doctor to be really great--to be in that job because he is the best at it. I don't want someone placed there by a truly random lottery, and I do want the guy who won the intelligence DNA drawing to be the one I talk to. I also want wealth to motivate people to get into that job, as it is so tough to gain that knowledge, I don't know if there will be enough people without a financial reward.