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64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

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Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#51

Post by throwaway24572 »

So here's some hiring anti-patterns I've seen, it's not just millennial managers, but I've seen these patterns in lots of companies and interviews.

1. Managers that want to hire people they could be best friends with. Drinking buddies, social media socialites, etc. Don't confuse this with hiring their best friends, they just feel more comfortable around people that they could socialize with.

2. Managers that don't want anyone to undermine their technical authority. And the best way a manager with 5 years of experience can keep his authority is to not hire an engineer with 20 years of professional experience.

3. Managers that think the culture of a company would turn more boring if they hired middle-aged workers. So they must hire young people only. They can usually get away with it if they hire 80% college graduates mostly.

4. There must be something wrong with the person if he didn't get into management by the age of 50.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#52

Post by gameswithgo »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #41
yardie wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this blaming of people for not having foresight. You can do everything right and still lose it all. Let's say he started a 401K in his 20s and slid the meter all the way to right (riskier investments). He would have encountered: - 1980 recession, the one that got Reagan elected. - 1990 recession, the one that got Clinton elected. - 2001 recession, this one mainly affected tech workers. - 2008 recession,…

I see your point, however we all should have long term savings that we do not touch, even if things are falling apart. That used to be how pensions were. Also keep in mind this guy is in Canada and the GFC was not nearly as severe as in the USA.

we should also have our kids in a good school which costs a ton of money is america, either in form of expensive house or private school. then we are supposed to pay for college. we are supposed to have good health insurance for our family. there are a lot of things we are supposed to do and not everyone can afford to do them all.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#53

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

zmmmmm wrote: post #24

It's tragic and I wish younger devs could have even a small understanding of how pernicious this phenomenon is. No, you won't escape it because you're awesome, or because you love learning new things etc etc. I'm lucky: I switched into a role where deep domain experience is essential, I did a PhD, I'm one of the top experts in a growing field - I'm more or less insulated from this. Indeed, now I hire people and I'm a…

I'm a (relatively) young developer, and I already worry about it.

I enjoy and love working with new tech, I jump to new frameworks and ways of working quite often because it's good fun. I don't think that'll ever change.

I'm already worried for the day where I won't be able to do that because people won't perceive me as a young, hungry up and comer wanting to attack problems, and instead they'll see me as an entrenched, slow, older worker trying to tackle stuff best left to the young'ins.

When that day comes, I can see myself just setting my roots in a long term role in a particular tech that won't change, and I'll probably be bored out of my skull. I can envisage myself ending up going into management just to escape that.

The best teams I've worked with were the teams that had a mix of young and old, it balances a team the same as having a good gender split imho.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#54

Post by woogiewonka »

I'm a consultant in my 30s and I worry about my 50's and 60's. I feel like, if I don't get a recurring revenue product going that sells itself without the trade of time for money, I'll be totally screwed. I've tried and failed a few times on various projects, and it feels like time is running out. There are definitely fewer attempts left in me and it takes a hell of a lot of energy to stay positive and try all over.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#55

Post by shakna »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #41
yardie wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this blaming of people for not having foresight. You can do everything right and still lose it all. Let's say he started a 401K in his 20s and slid the meter all the way to right (riskier investments). He would have encountered: - 1980 recession, the one that got Reagan elected. - 1990 recession, the one that got Clinton elected. - 2001 recession, this one mainly affected tech workers. - 2008 recession,…

I see your point, however we all should have long term savings that we do not touch, even if things are falling apart. That used to be how pensions were. Also keep in mind this guy is in Canada and the GFC was not nearly as severe as in the USA.

Should, not do.

The household savings rate in Canada is quite awful [0], and is currently at the lowest rate in their recorded history.

The US, where household savings are known to be bad, and it was recently seen how awful it was with government workers unable to pay for food, is at 6%. Canda is 0.8%.

[0] https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/personal-savings

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#56

Post by olalonde »

warent wrote: post #37
towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

I sincerely hope you were just being facetious in the last line. There's a ton someone with your experience could do such as write books, consultation, coaching, etc.

Remote work too. Your employer doesn't need to know your age.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#57

Post by smnplk »

towaway1138 wrote: post #15

I'm only in my 50s, but this is very relateable. Did a couple dozen interviews a year or two ago before finally getting a bite. Somewhat amazingly, even passed the hiring committee at a FANG, only to get swatted down by a rare strike from the executive level. In one interview, was asked to produce a class that could serialize and deserialize a list of numbers, to/from a string of chars. Sure, it's not that hard. Took…

By graceful exit, do you mean Smith and Wesson retirement plan ? I think it's still better to become a street beggar.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#58

Post by MisterOctober »

__float wrote: post #39
harlanji wrote: post #7

Work-to-hire needs to be more prevalent. Start this guy off as a janitor so he can work his way up. No American feels above mopping floors, in case you, hiring manager, were unaware. Source: unemployed techie who gardens and moves in Silicon Valley, for people who would love to hire me if they had a computer job and is dodged by recruiters.

...why should he start as a janitor when he has years of experience doing the jobs he's apply for?

Yep. Also, most companies won't hire people who are massively overqualified for unskilled [or lesser-skilled] positions. In fact, many managers view unused skills as a waste [e.g., in the "Lean" philosophy / cult, it's called the '8th muda or waste'] and are specifically wary for that reason among others.

now of course, it's not always interpreted as a negative incentive to hire certain folks due to their having skill A, but instead to use skill A if someone has it -- but I have certainly heard it interpreted as one of the reasons to avoid overqualified candidates].

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#59

Post by throwaway24572 »

x0x0 wrote: post #22
myresume wrote: post #16

I have experienced this myself. I am going on 50. I am actually looking for work now. And I have kept up and I am using modern tech stacks. http://geoffreycallaghan.com

fyi, this may work better if you say where you are. I looked and am assuming NJ from the 908 cell.

Greater NYC Area.

Re: 64 and unemployed: One man's struggle to be taken seriously as a job applicant

#60

Post by graeme »

yardie wrote: post #28
maerF0x0 wrote: post #5

I feel for this guy. Ageism is completely real and mostly missing from D&I initiatives. However there is a 2nd lesson to be learned here. Why in the world does he not have any savings at 64? The article is scant on details, but does mention he was in the computer industry from his 20s, and raised his son, say, until roughly his 40s. That leaves 20 prime years of earning power w/o savings? Something is amiss. To me th…

I don't like this blaming of people for not having foresight. You can do everything right and still lose it all. Let's say he started a 401K in his 20s and slid the meter all the way to right (riskier investments). He would have encountered: - 1980 recession, the one that got Reagan elected. - 1990 recession, the one that got Clinton elected. - 2001 recession, this one mainly affected tech workers. - 2008 recession,…

If you don't sell the lows, a portfolio would still be up a lot over that time period.

I think even buying at the peaks you'd be up.

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