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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#261

Post by testrr95 »

flowerlad wrote: post #242
testrr95 wrote: post #239

I will tell you what they do in India In 2015, I got a call from Oracle India and interviews were arranged and I got hired into Oracle India. It was my first job change. Before to that, I used to work as a contractor for one of the US companies via one of the services company in India. Oracle offered me way less than what they are offering to other engineers in the same BU, for the same value generated. Reason Oracle…

If you accepted a job offer based on verbal promises as opposed to written then you only have yourself to blame. Learn your lesson and move on.

I told you Sir, It was my first job change. I did not knew the tricks of the trade.

Yes, I have myself to blame because I trusted the people involved in hiring from one of the top 5 tech companies in the world. Id did not occur to me that I am being played upon.

However, If you had noticed, I mentioned I argued with hiring team [ PM, director, recruiter] IN WRITING BEFORE JOINING THE COMPANY. I still have those emails. As a response to those they used to call on phone, NOT reply in writing. It was evident to me that they are calling back because they have read the emails. I forgot to take the same thing in writing, because I trusted them.

So, Yes I joined them because of verbal promises, but the emails do exist still, in my mailbox, where I have asked them in band pay, before joining.

Initially when I approached the company's authorities they said " I am making this stuff up", but when I showed them emails from my mailbox, they switched to "since you do not have replies, ... .. .. you do not stand a case"

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#262

Post by jhwang5 »

ausjke wrote: post #257
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

As far as I know, while Chinese students are way more than India students in USA, Indian H1B holders are about 4~5 times more than Chinese. In short, the vast majority(about 50+%) H1Bs are taken by India, Chinese is about 10%. Indians abuses the system severely by setting up phony staffing companies and do fake multiple filings on h1b application, etc. There is a saying, that if an Indian becomes a manager, soon all…

This. I have observed this at FAANG as well as wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened at Oracle. Would explain the data anyways.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#263

Post by yholio »

vowelless wrote: post #135
yholio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…

When I was on an h1b, I was making around 60k in the middle of the country, working for an amazing startup where we were ramen profitable. My skill set was highly specialized for the job. However, I couldn’t be a founder due to my visa status and we couldn’t pay each other even basic salaries. But we did some pretty amazing stuff for DARPA, DOD, and eventually some commercial enterprises. You would price out people l…

Nativist implies a racial undertone. I would call it tax-payerist: regardless of your background, the state prioritizes the interests of current tax payers to the detriment of future potential citizens. It's true even for migrants on other types of visas, they should be protected from labour dumping.

It's the only way a rich nation can function really, the alternative being open borders and a rapidly decreasing standard of living. They all do this in some convoluted way, despite any rethoric to the contrary.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#264

Post by jhwang5 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #224

You could fix all of the problems with the US immigration system by abolishing the welfare state and opening up the borders. I love America and I’d move there in an instant if I’d get a chance, but I’ve got too much dignity to go thru the US immigration system and put myself in a limbo for many years. Maybe when I’ll qualify for EB2 NIW.

For most people, green card process takes about 2 years, not many years.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#265

Post by YawningAngel »

throwaway-oid wrote: post #194
an_cap wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just engaging in common-sense ethical reasoning. It seems wrong to require that all whites employ a much higher bar for hiring blacks. And, I have the same intuition about requiring all Americans employ a much higher bar for hiring foreigners. Also, I think there is a big difference between allowing discrimination (which is only wrong if you belong to a protected class) and requiring discrimination, which is pret…

If you go even more abstract, why is it OK to kill animals for food but not humans?

You will note that many people find animal slaughter objectionable for exactly this reason.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#267

Post by aiisahik »

I think there are two cures for this issue:

1. Expose the pay disparity at Oracle and other companies so candidates know ahead of time what they are getting themselves into.

2. Make it easier for any H1B employee to get a job at a different company if they have the ability and desire.

I am on this visa called the E-3 which is almost identical to the H1B except:

- No annual cap

- No 6 year limit

- Only available to Australian nationals

I have never had any trouble finding a tech job despite being an asian foreigner. My pay has varied from 60k - 180k and the companies i've worked at have varied from multi-nationals to 3 person startup.

High Minimum salaries would disadvantage startups and companies in smaller cities.

Here's how to fix the h1B

- No hard annual cap

- No 6 year limit

- For any company that hires more than 10 H1B hires, the average salary of h1b employees should not be lower than the average salary of non-h1b employees.

- Additionally, for large companies (say > 10,000 employees) the average salary of h1b employees of a certain level of seniority should not be lower than the average salary of non-h1b employees of that same seniority.

This will give companies more certainty that a potential H1B hire would be approved, providing H1B candidates more job mobility. It would also prevent larger companies from abusing this system.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#268

Post by newshorts »

flowerlad wrote: post #240
jazzyk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal and controlled immigration is absolutely beneficial for the US overall. But targeting specific industries is unfair - the software industry has been the main target, lowering the income levels respective to other, protected professions (physicians, etc.), or business executives. Since people in the trades like plumbers or electricians do not fall under the umbrella of "importing the best & brightest", their hou…

>software industry has been the main target, lowering the income levels respective to other, protected professions I don’t see software engineers suffering. Starting salary in FAANG conpanies is $120K to $250K. That’s better than doctors when you factor in years of education.

Salary is not enough to determine quality of life, a faang salary in the Bay Area doesn’t get you very far as an individual and for families it’s often not enough.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#269

Post by sremani »

duaoebg wrote: post #251
petilon wrote: post #226

America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world. There are 4x as many geniuses in China as in the US. This is not because they are superior genetically. This is simply because the population of China is 4x that of USA. If one in 1,000,000 people are geniuses, then China must have 4x more…

That’s not why America is the most powerful. To sum it up “cheap credit.” No other place will give you access to money so cheaply.

Capital accumulation is the right word.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#270

Post by newshorts »

cptskippy wrote: post #249

Top teir software companies might claim the H-1B program allows them to hire the best and brightest from around the world, but that's not how everyone else uses the program. It allows consulting/contracting firms to hire low wage tech workers who are desperate to stay in the US and lock them into a form of indentured servitude because the road to a green card or citizenship is now a decade long journey and changing y…

H-1B coupled with the vendor contractor model are IMO the root causes of downward pressure on wages. Neoliberalism at its finest.
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