Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

revealnews.org

121–130 of 193 posts

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of this is the result of parents allowing children to play games unattended with games they themselves have not played to vet? With all things parenting, it ultimately falls on their shoulders on what they allow their kids to do. Not shilling for the slime balls preying on kids knowing parents are lazy, but parents are not blameless.

I vet all of my kid's games, but this particular pattern was not a deal-breaker for me. However, I've set my Google Play Store to require a password for each purchase. When my kid gets confused, he gets negative feedback in the form of a frustrating dead-end. Hopefully that'll help learning.

Thats some valuable time to be wasting to disciver dead ends in video games. Maybe there is a better way?

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#122
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “It doesn’t necessarily look like ‘real’ money to a minor,” This is intentional. In many games, some things cost "gold" earned by playing the game, and others cost "gems" bought with real money. Or maybe "gold" is the one that costs real money. It's designed to be confusing and hide the distinction between in-game points and real money. At some point the game companies should bear some of the responsibility for dec…

I wish Apple would crack down on this. Especially annoying are the games that let you pay to remove ads but then force you to watch a video ad (or buy real money gems) to get another play. So I paid to remove ads but I still get ads. And all of these in app purchases and ads are a really frustrating experience for games that would otherwise be fun. Not to mention they've all effectively turned into pay to play with a…

I agree that it would be nice for Apple to clean up this type of transaction, but I've never found that a game containing them was particularly fun to play.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#123
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single use cards like privacy.com provides might be the solution you’re looking for

AMEX is what provides that solution, and fine the merchant as a bonus. It's called disputing a charge. Other cards have the option too, but AMEX will fight for you the most. I've literally had merchants issue a partial refund, disputed the original charge, and ended up with bonus money, multiple times. There is a cost to using credit cards. One of the main reasons to use them is this protection against bad actors, an…

Reversing the charges doesn’t work with Facebook because they will block your account and for most people that’s not an option. And Americans Express is not going to fine Facebook or suspend their merchant account. That’s for small merchants.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#125
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “It doesn’t necessarily look like ‘real’ money to a minor,” This is intentional. In many games, some things cost "gold" earned by playing the game, and others cost "gems" bought with real money. Or maybe "gold" is the one that costs real money. It's designed to be confusing and hide the distinction between in-game points and real money. At some point the game companies should bear some of the responsibility for dec…

I wish Apple would crack down on this. Especially annoying are the games that let you pay to remove ads but then force you to watch a video ad (or buy real money gems) to get another play. So I paid to remove ads but I still get ads. And all of these in app purchases and ads are a really frustrating experience for games that would otherwise be fun. Not to mention they've all effectively turned into pay to play with a…

The ads and IAP are annoying but Apple does have a way to get a refund for this kind of ‘purchases’:

https://www.macworld.com/article/2140066/how-to-get-an-app-s...

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#126

Steam / Valve did this for quite a few years until they were taken to court in Australia for their unfair practices. A judge said their refund policy was criminal and intended to deny refunds and fined them a couple million dollars for an estimated 20,000 times. Steam drastically changed their refund policy and evaded fallout everywhere else, but it's probably going to be substantial for Facebook. https://www.pcmag.c…

These two cases seem pretty different to me. Steam wasn't in compliance with Australian refund laws and got in trouble for it. But the Steam case had nothing to do with minors (mostly very young children) making inadvertent purchases.

The same thing happened with Apple in the US:

https://www.macworld.com/article/2087844/apple-ftc-settle-ov...

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact is many of these ongoing payments, and the use of separate game currencies rather than simple $1.99 are deliberately unclear, even to fully clued up adults. That's rather the whole point of them. Well, so are amusement park tickets. That doesn't mean you are absolved of responsibility for controlling your cash when you go to an amusement park.

If your toddler tried to use your credit card at an amusement park to buy $500 worth of cotton candy I imagine the person at the counter would not process it.

That is a perfect illustration. Facebook is the cornerstore that will sell your kid 500 in toys and comic books, only to upsell them a pack of camels from my checkout display. It's cool, we already have your daddys credit card from last time, and he said we could use if for his future transactions. And because you are clearly a young child, lacking agency, I will bill him. Yet I will refuse to refund it when dad comes in later. Did I mention I am selling access to your data, also webcams!? Its goddamn terrifying we let it get this far.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#128

> But the company had discovered that more than 9 percent of the money it made from children was being clawed back by the credit card companies. > In comparison, the average chargeback rate for businesses is 0.5 percent, according to the Merchant Risk Council, a nonprofit that helps businesses manage risk. > A chargeback rate of 1 percent is considered high, and credit card companies such as Visa and Mastercard will…

That explains why the security is so lax. The card companies are complicit in the scheme.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of this is the result of parents allowing children to play games unattended with games they themselves have not played to vet? With all things parenting, it ultimately falls on their shoulders on what they allow their kids to do. Not shilling for the slime balls preying on kids knowing parents are lazy, but parents are not blameless.

> How much of this is the result of parents allowing children to play games unattended with games they themselves have not played to vet? None of it. You can try it. You can have a million parents leave a million children alone for most of the day, and not even a bitmap image of one cartoon coin or anything will magically be created, much less the code and distribution channels for a whole game. It doesn't make exist…

When 'society' keeps getting worse, the only advocate remaining for the child is the parent.

I agree that those who make these apps are worse than the parents who are too busy to catch/prevent such incidents before they happen, but those sorts of people have been with humanity for a looong time and aren't going anywhere any time soon. I have been somewhat surprised and saddened to see comments suggesting so in this thread turn gray.

I'm not saying we should give up on improving society and trying to eliminate this sort of crap, but this is always what parenting has been about. If you have the attitude that everyone else needs to responsible for preventing these issues and it's okay for parents not to take any of that responsibility, I'm sorry but you are wrong. We need to do both.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#130
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMEX is what provides that solution, and fine the merchant as a bonus. It's called disputing a charge. Other cards have the option too, but AMEX will fight for you the most. I've literally had merchants issue a partial refund, disputed the original charge, and ended up with bonus money, multiple times. There is a cost to using credit cards. One of the main reasons to use them is this protection against bad actors, an…

As an European who rarely sees credit cards, I always wonder if this is USA only? How do you dispute a charge? My web banking platform has options for almost everything, but not much credit card related. Do I contact my bank, or do I go straight to VISA?

You should usually contact your bank and dispute one of the charges on your bank statement (that's how it seems to work in the UK, at least.)
Post reply on HN