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Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

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Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#111

Post by darkpuma »

golemotron wrote: post #52
dlandis wrote: post #51

If true, this seems to be one of the more clear cut recent examples of unethical policies devised by Facebook employees. I suspect certain other policies and programs can be mentally justified, but when it comes to very obvious things like this I would think it would have a bigger impact on whether top employees including engineers would be willing to continue working there. Everyone has their own personal line beyon…

" by Facebook employees" The buck stops where?

A fish rots from the head. But is it just the head that's rotten? No, soon the whole fish is rotten; that's the point.

So yes, Zuck is rotten. And consequently we should expect to find systemic rot through the organization at all but the very lowest levels (the groundskeepers and maintenance guys are probably clean)

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#112

Post by PavlovsCat »

dylan604 wrote: post #77
emiliobumachar wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen cartoonish green notes as in-game currency, parallel to gold, but much more scarce and can be bought with real money. Kids don't stand a chance.

How much of this is the result of parents allowing children to play games unattended with games they themselves have not played to vet? With all things parenting, it ultimately falls on their shoulders on what they allow their kids to do. Not shilling for the slime balls preying on kids knowing parents are lazy, but parents are not blameless.

> How much of this is the result of parents allowing children to play games unattended with games they themselves have not played to vet?

None of it. You can try it. You can have a million parents leave a million children alone for most of the day, and not even a bitmap image of one cartoon coin or anything will magically be created, much less the code and distribution channels for a whole game. It doesn't make existing "wholesome" games automatically devolve into other games either, the code and assets don't change at all.

The people who actually do make these things, who do exploit some parents having a lot on their plate: where were their parents then, and where are their peers now? The crime of "not paying enough attention to what your child is doing, which results in a person you love being harmed, and you paying money", is tiny versus the crime of "ruthlessly preying on children for financial gain". Looking away when your child plays such a game is nothing compared to looking away when people make and distribute them.

I don't have children so I'm hesitant to point fingers at parents. I have the ability to make derpy things to sell to children, and I'm not doing that also because in my mind, only a.) children and b.) very careful, well trained and aware adults should make entertainment for children. So unlike parents, I judge those "creators" mercilessly. I cannot even stand the overly "hyped" streamers and youtubers who makes sure they don't swear to be "family-friendly" and not get "demonetized", but otherwise talk crap 24/365 that is fit to turn any brain to mush... but apps and games pushed onto kids directly is yet another level of depraved.

Where is society making an effort to warn parents, that you get to call them lazy for maybe not even considering some people would be so sick and morally bankrupt? What effort was made since Elsagate to warn anything about that stuff? That there's millions of dollars on the line has nothing to do with it, just lazy parents?

Lazy, deplorable society, is what I'd call it.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#113

Post by npunt »

Note at the time (2011-2012) there was almost assuredly a lot of incentive at FB to look the other way regarding this kind of fraud, since they were preparing to go public (May 2012). When going public you want to get the best price on your IPO, so I imagine the order from higher up was to push revenue higher and look the other way on these types of issues.

FB's stock dropped 40% in the months after going public, so that incentive to not do anything to impact revenue remained as FB dug themselves out of that hole. It may have even been amplified because internal employees were in lockout period watching the stock drop and wanting to cash out at a good price, and probably were (psychologically) price anchored on the IPO price.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#114

Post by empath75 »

microcolonel wrote: post #55
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, blame the parents. A 9% chargeback rate on payments identified from minors is an awful lot of careless parents. The real fraud rate would be a lot higher as plenty might write it off to experience come credit card bill. Quite often these things are remarkably difficult to cancel too (no idea if that applies to Facebook). The fact is many of these ongoing payments, and the use of separate game currencies rathe…

> The fact is many of these ongoing payments, and the use of separate game currencies rather than simple $1.99 are deliberately unclear, even to fully clued up adults. That's rather the whole point of them. Well, so are amusement park tickets. That doesn't mean you are absolved of responsibility for controlling your cash when you go to an amusement park.

If your toddler tried to use your credit card at an amusement park to buy $500 worth of cotton candy I imagine the person at the counter would not process it.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#115

Post by a12432 »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #75
yholio wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole idea of storing a payment token that a company can charge at will (as opposed to a fixed top-up with cash) and then for me to be unable to deny those charges, I find it all unacceptable and refuse to allow it ever. After providing such a payment token there should be no proof and dispute involved, just a single click in a web interface "I refuse to pay for that and I revoke the token". The user of the toke…

Single use cards like privacy.com provides might be the solution you’re looking for

AMEX is what provides that solution, and fine the merchant as a bonus. It's called disputing a charge. Other cards have the option too, but AMEX will fight for you the most. I've literally had merchants issue a partial refund, disputed the original charge, and ended up with bonus money, multiple times.

There is a cost to using credit cards. One of the main reasons to use them is this protection against bad actors, and punishment of those actors by fines.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#116

Post by Jare »

austincheney wrote: post #104
mindgam3 wrote: post #15

The issue is Facebook denying refund requests after children were suckered in to make large in-game payments using their parents' stored credit cards. It's not just that this whole scenario is slimy. It's that Facebook was fully aware of it, had a nice in-house term for it ("friendly fraud"), and not only chose not to approve refunds but also chose not to implement the most basic measures to prevent it. [edit: as a c…

> not to implement the most basic measures to prevent it. The most basic implement to prevent this behavior is for parents to limit their children's access to Facebook. The consequence for that lack of supervision is spent money. Who should we feel sorry for?

Feel sorry for parents who are struggling to keep up with a crazily fast technology uptake for which they are not prepared but which has many high impact features in their profession, in their spare time, and in their kids' lives.

If you know parents without tech education or a comfortable economic position and lifestyle, try asking them how the deal with all this stuff.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#117

Post by WilliamEdward »

austincheney wrote: post #104
mindgam3 wrote: post #15

The issue is Facebook denying refund requests after children were suckered in to make large in-game payments using their parents' stored credit cards. It's not just that this whole scenario is slimy. It's that Facebook was fully aware of it, had a nice in-house term for it ("friendly fraud"), and not only chose not to approve refunds but also chose not to implement the most basic measures to prevent it. [edit: as a c…

> not to implement the most basic measures to prevent it. The most basic implement to prevent this behavior is for parents to limit their children's access to Facebook. The consequence for that lack of supervision is spent money. Who should we feel sorry for?

You are correct, but no chargebacks is a scummy policy that makes Facebook in the wrong here.

Re: Facebook Let Kids Rack Up Charges on Parents' Credit Cards

#118

Post by hyperman1 »

a12432 wrote: post #115
colejohnson66 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single use cards like privacy.com provides might be the solution you’re looking for

AMEX is what provides that solution, and fine the merchant as a bonus. It's called disputing a charge. Other cards have the option too, but AMEX will fight for you the most. I've literally had merchants issue a partial refund, disputed the original charge, and ended up with bonus money, multiple times. There is a cost to using credit cards. One of the main reasons to use them is this protection against bad actors, an…

As an European who rarely sees credit cards, I always wonder if this is USA only? How do you dispute a charge?

My web banking platform has options for almost everything, but not much credit card related. Do I contact my bank, or do I go straight to VISA?

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