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Oslo made its city center basically car-free

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Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#461

Post by Broken_Hippo »

improbable22 wrote: post #258
gamegoblin wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I broke my foot and ankle in several places in a rock climbing accident 1.5 years ago, and was put in a similar place to you (unable to stand for more than 20 minutes, unable to walk more than a few hundred yards, etc). This was a huge lifestyle impact to me -- before the injury, if it was less than a 30 minute walk, I almost always walked. If I wasn't in a hurry, up to 60 minutes. What helped me a lot was getting an…

Similar experience: I broke my leg, while I happened to be living both with a car, and in a building with underground parking. This really made staying independent possible, for the months it took before I could walk properly. Sure it was slower to drive to the supermarket & park underground there, instead of walking... but much quicker than waiting for someone else to have time to help. I agree that solutions other…

This sort of thing only works if the average car is an automatic transmission. In areas where a manual transmission is the norm, breaking a leg means not driving.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#462

Post by lsc »

danjayh wrote: post #58
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

>As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding.

I've heard this before... and maybe I'm not qualified to speak, as I'm not yet the age where I really have to worry, but from what I know of current technology, I can totally go out and buy a walking speed electric wheelchair that is safe to operate even after my vision and attention degrade... but self-driving capabilities in cars are still quite some ways off.

Personally, my body would have to degrade a lot before I needed that wheelchair to make it a few blocks; but my attention and vision? that wouldn't have to degrade as much before I would not be able to safely operate a car.

This is actually something I've thought a lot about; I mean, I personally am bearish on self-driving cars, and if we don't get self-driving cars? I think I might need to plan on retiring to New York, as that's probably one of the few places I can count on aging without being expected to drive.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#463

Post by Vinnl »

calcifer wrote: post #93
Kjeldahl wrote: post #30

What the PR piece doesn't show is that during winter (4-6 months a year), very few ride bicycles around. In winter most people don't stay outside a lot, the weather is harsh (people do ski, but not inside the cities). They have installed play and outside work areas, which are mostly empty during winter, and require maintenance to get them in shape again for the next summer. A lot of shops are moving or closing down.…

> It doesn't look quite as good with 5-6 shopping bags with groceries for the kids. Here in the Netherlands people seem to have no problems doing exactly that on a bike. Is Oslo any significantly different than, say, Amsterdam? Last week we had all sorts of harsh whether (sub-zero temps, heavy rain, snow) during my morning commute, which didn't seem to affect bike traffic one bit. > Parents in Norway also spend a lot…

> Last week we had all sorts of harsh whether (sub-zero temps, heavy rain, snow) during my morning commute, which didn't seem to affect bike traffic one bit.

I'd like to corroborate the sibling comment: this is not true. Although not in Amsterdam, elsewhere in the Netherlands I consistently park my bike in the same parking around the same time, and it usually fills up at about the same pace. Far fewer spaces were taken when I parked my bike during the harsh weather than there were usually.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#464

Post by pantalaimon »

heydonovan wrote: post #326
adrianN wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be completely okay with cars for disabled people, deliveries, and people who have to transport a lot of stuff like tools for their job. But >90% of all cars on the road are driven by able-bodied people with nothing but themselves to transport.

Completely agree! I'd love to hop on a bus and watch Netflix on my phone while someone else drives me downtown to work, but it's 3x as slow. It takes me about 25 minutes to drive myself, or 60-70 minutes by bus. That and a lot of the bus stops around me have zero shade from the sun or rain, or one tiny bench so that the majority of folks waiting have to stand. It feels like such an afterthought. Also, I'd like to poi…

When I ride to work, trains are going every 2-3 minutes and it takes me 20 minutes to get to my destination at the other side of the city.

I don't think I world make it through the traffic and all the red lights in the same time. Finding a parking spot would take a significant amount of time again.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#465

Post by emiliobumachar »

danjayh wrote: post #58
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

The notion that one needs to be "disabled enough" for a powered wheelchair but not for a car is entirely socially constructed and could change.

A car can fairly be seen as a grossly overpowered wheelchair with an extra ton of metal or two.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#466

Post by emiliobumachar »

maxsilver wrote: post #292
so33 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most city centers that go "car-free", especially in Western Europe, only do so for a few blocks. Imagine the entire area around Times Square becoming pedestrianized. And yes, as much as they seem to clutter city streets, electric scooters and the like are seemingly becoming a viable last-mile transportation option.

> Imagine the entire area around Times Square becoming pedestrianized. We have those. That's called a Shopping Mall.

Insightful. By advertising, lobbying and bribing their way into dominance, the car industry has created demand for private walkable city center substitutes.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#467

Post by skookumchuck »

themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

A step in that direction is to block off the city streets during business hours, turning them into walking malls. I've seen some european cities to this. It works well.

It's not perfect, though. Some of these will let government vehicles on them, and they do often enough to make it a nuisance, like those annoying electric carts in the airport.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#468

Post by skookumchuck »

danjayh wrote: post #58
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

Perhaps a Segway might work for you? Keep it in your car.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#469

Post by blattimwind »

kiliantics wrote: post #403
duchenne wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cities existed before without cars and I suspect they will exist again after they leave. Sucks that I had to live in the time period with them. I find it interesting that many people don't realize that city with cars have exisited for a very long time. Romans did not pave roads all over Europe just to make it more comfortable for pedestrians. The only difference is that back then, cars where horse-powered. As a res…

A horse-drawn chariot is nowhere near as noisy and air-polluting as a 4-lane highway or a gridlocked inner city intersection with horns blowing

One horse-drawn chariot definitely makes more noise than one car, even when the car goes faster.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#470

Post by improbable22 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #461
improbable22 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar experience: I broke my leg, while I happened to be living both with a car, and in a building with underground parking. This really made staying independent possible, for the months it took before I could walk properly. Sure it was slower to drive to the supermarket & park underground there, instead of walking... but much quicker than waiting for someone else to have time to help. I agree that solutions other…

This sort of thing only works if the average car is an automatic transmission. In areas where a manual transmission is the norm, breaking a leg means not driving.

Manual in my case -- a light clutch is a lot less force than body weight.
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