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Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

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Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#51

Post by goodcanadian »

Scoundreller wrote: post #19

A short summary of what’s going on here: The land in question involves an aboriginal reserve that has a border going through it. Canada used to have its border post at the physical border. But felt that this allowed too much smuggling with the reserve all around it. So the feds move the border post inland: at the border of the reserve and the rest of Canada. As a result, the “correct” procedure to enter the Canadian…

Canada used to have its border post at the physical border. But felt that this allowed too much smuggling with the reserve all around it.

My understanding is that moving the border post had more to do with poor community relations. It became too much of a hassle to maintain it on Akwesasne land:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akwesasne

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#52

Post by goodcanadian »

vkou wrote: post #28
snambi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Canada leave the aboriginal reserve, because it makes more sense?

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to, and, regardless of the outcome of the vote, to grant all residents of it dual citizenship (Due to existing ties that members of the tribe have to persons living outside of the reserve.) Everything else either: 1. Compromises the border. (If you don't care about the border, then…

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to . . .

The thing is that they mostly consider themselves independent. I'm not sure such a vote would get a meaningful result, and it would probably raise tensions rather than lower them.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#53

Post by CoolGuySteve »

meritt wrote: post #50
_mul0 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here, and I'd like to say: uh, no, thanks. Canada has a very different culture than the US. Examples: * compare types of crimes, and rates of crimes in major Canadian cities versus major US cities * existence of many "socialist" policies, which all work on the following: "you contribute a small amount uniform across all citizens, to the national piggy bank, and the national piggy bank doles out to those in n…

Open borders simply means people can travel freely, similar to the Schengen Area [1] in western Europe. It doesn't mean they have some sort of automatic dual-citizenship or whatever it is you're talking about here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

The Schengen Area is relatively uniform with regards to government subsidization of healthcare and the availability of guns.

The same can't be said of the US and Canada. The incredible amount of regulatory capture in the US makes them unlikely to reconcile those aspects of their society with the rest of the developed world any time soon.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#54

Post by em-bee »

how about putting the US border-crossing on the canadian side and the canadian border-crossing onto the US side?

though politically unlikely, this would be the most practical.

in order to enter the reservation from the US side you need to be cleared to enter canada but you are not actually leaving the US until you leave the reservation on the canadian side.

the reverse process from the other direction.

people who live in the reservation never need to cross any border checking. it also means you are only able to enter the reservation if you are allowed to stay in the US and in canada. not a problem for locals, but maybe for tourists who eg. have a visa for canada but not for the US.

it would also mean that the stricter laws of both countries would apply. no guns in the reservation as per canada's laws for example...

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#55

Post by vkou »

goodcanadian wrote: post #52
vkou wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to, and, regardless of the outcome of the vote, to grant all residents of it dual citizenship (Due to existing ties that members of the tribe have to persons living outside of the reserve.) Everything else either: 1. Compromises the border. (If you don't care about the border, then…

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to . . . The thing is that they mostly consider themselves independent. I'm not sure such a vote would get a meaningful result, and it would probably raise tensions rather than lower them.

They may consider themselves independent, but in practice, would probably prefer to be a part of one of the two countries, compared to being a land-locked micro-state, or the status quo.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#56

Post by GhostVII »

labster wrote: post #36
vkou wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to, and, regardless of the outcome of the vote, to grant all residents of it dual citizenship (Due to existing ties that members of the tribe have to persons living outside of the reserve.) Everything else either: 1. Compromises the border. (If you don't care about the border, then…

The obvious solution is for the United States to negotiate an open border with Canada. Policy changes might be needed on both sides, but the economic benefits of open borders between allies with similar economies is undeniable.

Canada already has problems with guns being smuggled in from the US, I feel like that would only make it worse. Although maybe it is just an impossible problem to solve.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#57

Post by Asooka »

vkou wrote: post #28
snambi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Canada leave the aboriginal reserve, because it makes more sense?

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to, and, regardless of the outcome of the vote, to grant all residents of it dual citizenship (Due to existing ties that members of the tribe have to persons living outside of the reserve.) Everything else either: 1. Compromises the border. (If you don't care about the border, then…

Or the reserve could be a special administrative region that's partly Canadian and partly USA territory within which travel is unrestricted (sort of like Hong Kong). With two border posts - one on the border of the reserve and Canada and one on the border of the USA and Canada. But of course the problem here isn't lack of sensible solutions, it's political fuckupery.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#58

Post by bhickey »

amelius wrote: post #31
vkou wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to, and, regardless of the outcome of the vote, to grant all residents of it dual citizenship (Due to existing ties that members of the tribe have to persons living outside of the reserve.) Everything else either: 1. Compromises the border. (If you don't care about the border, then…

How about a temporary change of the border? I.e., an agreement where one party gives up the region until they decide to have it back.

A condominium arrangement[0] seems like a pretty reasonable to resolve this.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condominium_(international_law...

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#59

Post by jryle70 »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #53
meritt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open borders simply means people can travel freely, similar to the Schengen Area [1] in western Europe. It doesn't mean they have some sort of automatic dual-citizenship or whatever it is you're talking about here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

The Schengen Area is relatively uniform with regards to government subsidization of healthcare and the availability of guns. The same can't be said of the US and Canada. The incredible amount of regulatory capture in the US makes them unlikely to reconcile those aspects of their society with the rest of the developed world any time soon.

Setting aside your subjective opinion about the state of the US's government, the Schengen area includes countries such as Slovakia and Austria. Apparently there have been no wave of Slovakians migrating into Austria despite the gap between their living standard, political transparency or corruption level. Hungary and Austria for that matter, or Poland and German. The agreement is only about open border. Nothing else.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#60

Post by a12432 »

amscanne wrote: post #49
labster wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how any of those things relate to open borders. Having different cultures doesn't preclude an open border; see Scotland and England for reference. Can you please clarify? It's funny. I asked a friend of mine if she would oppose open borders with Canada, and she said that the US couldn't afford to deal with all of the Canadians that would flood into the United States. So which is it? I feel like this is a…

Scotland and England are not really different countries, despite what people there might say. They’re just local political divisions, less significant than a Canadian province. I assume that the theoretical open borders policy you’re describing would still leave in place immigration restrictions, so I don’t see why the rush of Canadians would overwhelm the U.S. (since they can’t work legally). I see at least a couple…

not different countries? are you kidding me? you can get a passport at the post office. do give it a try. it helps to have experience about something before refuting the point. give that a try too.
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