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Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

thewalrus.ca

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Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#41

Post by grawprog »

walrus01 wrote: post #38
grawprog wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people in Point Roberts have dual citizenships. Some of the ones with both Canadian and American citizenships had their kids attend school in Canada. My highschool and a closer one in south delta had a bus for those people. Sorry my original comment was kind of unclear. There was about 6 people that took the bus from there whike I was going to school there, there was about 2000 people in my school.

Even with dual citizenship, people can't just send their kids to a Canadian school if it's not their primary residence. In BC you have to show proof of location to register a kid for school, either you own your home, or you show a copy of your lease, utility bills, etc. If I had to guess they were using relatives' houses claimed as their actual residential address. This has been a problem in Vancouver recently with p…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington#Ed...

https://web.archive.org/web/20121105113833/http://www.canada...

>Canadian kids are allowed to attend Delta's school district.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#42

Post by caf »

vkou wrote: post #28
snambi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Canada leave the aboriginal reserve, because it makes more sense?

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to, and, regardless of the outcome of the vote, to grant all residents of it dual citizenship (Due to existing ties that members of the tribe have to persons living outside of the reserve.) Everything else either: 1. Compromises the border. (If you don't care about the border, then…

Surely the easiest thing is to allow genuine permanent residents of Akwesasne - on either side of the border - to apply for some kind of special permit that allows them to just self-report their entry and exit over the phone.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#43

Post by _mul0 »

labster wrote: post #36
vkou wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that would make the most sense would be to allow the First Nations tribe in question to vote on which country it should belong to, and, regardless of the outcome of the vote, to grant all residents of it dual citizenship (Due to existing ties that members of the tribe have to persons living outside of the reserve.) Everything else either: 1. Compromises the border. (If you don't care about the border, then…

The obvious solution is for the United States to negotiate an open border with Canada. Policy changes might be needed on both sides, but the economic benefits of open borders between allies with similar economies is undeniable.

Canadian here, and I'd like to say: uh, no, thanks.

Canada has a very different culture than the US. Examples:

* compare types of crimes, and rates of crimes in major Canadian cities versus major US cities

* existence of many "socialist" policies, which all work on the following: "you contribute a small amount uniform across all citizens, to the national piggy bank, and the national piggy bank doles out to those in need (which may very well be you, but hopefully not, because things are likely not going to be in a good place for you then)"

* existence of media which would be "drowned" out by the US, if it weren't protected/supported by the government (e.g. CBC)

* different viewpoint on how to integrate minorities and First Nations so that everyone can prosper, together---partially because of the way history played out (not because "we're better")

* different take on nationalism

I actually get the US's immigration concerns. I really wouldn't want Americans flooding into Canada (no offense, but yeah, there are just major cultural issues which would need to be fixed first, otherwise the majority will just "win out").

Reading my post, I begin to realize that it could be taken very negatively. I want to convey the fact that my parents chose to immigrate to Canada, and not the US, for a reason. We would feel really weird if the countries somehow started to "integrate" further, unless it was Canadian "culture" that dominated. Otherwise, I am not sure if home would feel like home anymore (I don't feel like an outsider in Canada, but I often do feel like an outsider when I visit the US).

Immigrants who arrive to the country are usually extremely grateful, and willing to integrate into the bigger picture, or at least, that's the vision that Canada seems to operate under. This seems to create lower levels of "tension", less "ghetto-ization", and so on. I think that's the biggest culture difference between Canada and the US: most people aren't constantly thinking about the worst that could happen, and the worst generally doesn't happen.

I might be totally wrong. Scratch that: I really hope I am totally wrong.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#44

Post by labster »

_mul0 wrote: post #43
labster wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious solution is for the United States to negotiate an open border with Canada. Policy changes might be needed on both sides, but the economic benefits of open borders between allies with similar economies is undeniable.

Canadian here, and I'd like to say: uh, no, thanks. Canada has a very different culture than the US. Examples: * compare types of crimes, and rates of crimes in major Canadian cities versus major US cities * existence of many "socialist" policies, which all work on the following: "you contribute a small amount uniform across all citizens, to the national piggy bank, and the national piggy bank doles out to those in n…

I don't see how any of those things relate to open borders. Having different cultures doesn't preclude an open border; see Scotland and England for reference. Can you please clarify?

It's funny. I asked a friend of mine if she would oppose open borders with Canada, and she said that the US couldn't afford to deal with all of the Canadians that would flood into the United States. So which is it? I feel like this is a reflexive conservative argument that all of these X are going to come to our country and change our culture and take our stuff. Why is the first one bad, and is there even any evidence for the second?

Meanwhile, we're all leaving money on the table because of our fears: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17382400

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#45

Post by Scoundreller »

refurb wrote: post #39
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much higher could they have possibly been in Ontario? A pack of Du Maurier runs you almost $20 CAD these days...

This was a long time ago. NY Times article says $44 for a carton in Ontario versus $15 or so in the US. Obviously different times. However, the increase in taxes in the US made even higher taxes in Canada possible.

The price disparities between untaxed "reserve" cigarettes and non-reserve cigarettes is still there.

But they're often manufactured in Ontario now and find their way around.

Currency exchange rates can play some element.

New York State already has a lot of domestic demand for untaxed tobacco now that they're upped their taxes (again).

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#46

Post by Scoundreller »

grawprog wrote: post #41
walrus01 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with dual citizenship, people can't just send their kids to a Canadian school if it's not their primary residence. In BC you have to show proof of location to register a kid for school, either you own your home, or you show a copy of your lease, utility bills, etc. If I had to guess they were using relatives' houses claimed as their actual residential address. This has been a problem in Vancouver recently with p…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington#Ed... https://web.archive.org/web/20121105113833/http://www.canada... >Canadian kids are allowed to attend Delta's school district.

If it's a handful, they might just give a fee exemption of some sort and eat the cost. May as well prepare them for Canadian university that they'll inevitably attend because it's cheaper since they'll pay local rate.

> That same year, a 16-year-old [...], 10th-grader , allegedly smuggled $25,000 US worth of marijuana across the Peace Arch border on school buses designated to transport Point Roberts students to Blaine, Wash., schools.

lol, but makes me wonder where/how they picked up their stock.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#47

Post by vkou »

azernik wrote: post #40
vkou wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do that, the problem will shift to bouncing people around between two incompatible social and economic systems. "You are now subjects of Canada, until at some indeterminate point in the future, half of you will become Americans. Again." The land these people live on is not of vital importance to either country. As such, we should be doing right by the people who live on it.

That kind of "temporary" solution that lasts forever in practice is a good way to get around national sovereignty sensitivities, though.

This may make Washington and Ottawa feel good (Because it lets both sides save face), but is going to be pretty shitty for the people living in said territory, if it ever goes back to being split.

If it will never be re-split, then it's a de-facto annexation. In which case, I'd prefer that the residents vote on it.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#48

Post by solidsnack9000 »

syrrim wrote: post #4

The policy under which they might gain the right to mobility - proof of ancestral custom - fixes in place what would have been a continually evolving aspect of historical culture. The Orenda discusses a particular huron tribe picking up their whole village, including their dead, and moving it somewhere else - a practice they would repeat every few years or so. They couldn't recall any one place to say "thats where ou…

There is a lot to say here, but one question your comment raises is, why does the Canadian/American legal system have to acknowledge or accommodate a continually evolving aspect of historical culture? How much accommodation is fair to ask?

Many tribal practices of native peoples were and are incompatible with western legal systems. This is in part because the western legal system developed as an affirmative rejection of tribal law and customs. To take the example of England: Angles, Jutes, Saxons & Normans are all known to us; and the people are still here; but the scope of their tribal laws gradually narrowed as the framework of English law developed.

The notion of "equality before the law" gradually expanded individual rights and identity to a point where few of us recognise any tribal affiliation and led to uniquely open societies.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#49

Post by amscanne »

labster wrote: post #44
_mul0 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian here, and I'd like to say: uh, no, thanks. Canada has a very different culture than the US. Examples: * compare types of crimes, and rates of crimes in major Canadian cities versus major US cities * existence of many "socialist" policies, which all work on the following: "you contribute a small amount uniform across all citizens, to the national piggy bank, and the national piggy bank doles out to those in n…

I don't see how any of those things relate to open borders. Having different cultures doesn't preclude an open border; see Scotland and England for reference. Can you please clarify? It's funny. I asked a friend of mine if she would oppose open borders with Canada, and she said that the US couldn't afford to deal with all of the Canadians that would flood into the United States. So which is it? I feel like this is a…

Scotland and England are not really different countries, despite what people there might say. They’re just local political divisions, less significant than a Canadian province.

I assume that the theoretical open borders policy you’re describing would still leave in place immigration restrictions, so I don’t see why the rush of Canadians would overwhelm the U.S. (since they can’t work legally).

I see at least a couple big road blocks though. First, both Canada and the U.S. impose selective tariffs and restrictions on imported products from across the world. An open border would effectively allow venue shopping, as products imported to Canada would find themselves in the U.S. and vice versa. Even for local products, Canada standards for e.g. cheese seem like they would be much harder to enforce. Second, both Canada and the U.S. choose who to admit to the county based on their own polices (criminal backgrounds, specific blacklists, etc.). These would have the same problem with an open border.

An open border would effectively require a lot of these policies to be unified for Canada and the U.S., much like the E.U. While there are benefits, that’s a lot of autonomy to give up.

Re: Canada's Toughest Border Crossing

#50

Post by meritt »

_mul0 wrote: post #43
labster wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious solution is for the United States to negotiate an open border with Canada. Policy changes might be needed on both sides, but the economic benefits of open borders between allies with similar economies is undeniable.

Canadian here, and I'd like to say: uh, no, thanks. Canada has a very different culture than the US. Examples: * compare types of crimes, and rates of crimes in major Canadian cities versus major US cities * existence of many "socialist" policies, which all work on the following: "you contribute a small amount uniform across all citizens, to the national piggy bank, and the national piggy bank doles out to those in n…

Open borders simply means people can travel freely, similar to the Schengen Area [1] in western Europe. It doesn't mean they have some sort of automatic dual-citizenship or whatever it is you're talking about here.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

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