Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

mercurynews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 377 posts

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#71

Post by untog »

baby wrote: post #48
yholio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…

This is such a one-sided point of view. Imagine that you're immigrating to a country, and after a few years you get fire, or you want to take a sabbatical, or you want to change industry for a lower paying job. Now under your rules you cannot do that. What do you do? You've created your life in the US, you have friends, perhaps a girlfriend, maybe even a house. Now you have to leave?

(I say this as someone who lived in the US on a visa for years)

That's part of the deal. Any immigrant arriving on a visa knows what they've signed up for, and it doesn't involve taking a sabbatical. It also really should not involve buying a house, if you're being sensible. Being fired 100% sucks, but you can transfer an H1B to a new employer. H1B is at least a dual intent visa, so after some years you can apply for a green card, get one, then take all the sabbaticals you want.

(Also, if your life is settled enough to have friends and a girlfriend you don't want to leave, US immigration does offer an answer: marry her!)

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#72

Post by zeckalpha »

yholio wrote: post #28
tejaswiy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Needs to be adjusted for cost of living, salary changes over time by profession (Tech salaries are in a bubble rn. which makes 150k reasonable by bay area standards, but they may go significantly up / down in the future) which is complicated enough but there's edge cases like Universities / Non profits etc. that can't pay salaries to compete with the private sector but people work there anyway because of passion.

I disagree, if you can find cheap programmers in Des Moines, Iowa, then by all means expand there, spread the love within the country before going for import labour. As for bubbles, that's the point, there shouldn't be any if labour is available and willing to come in.

Or pay people in Des Moines $150k+

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#73

Post by jorblumesea »

B0btheBuilder wrote: post #68
jorblumesea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this hard to believe, are Chinese software engineer salaries FAANG level? It's not unheard of for senior engineering salaries to push 250k easily for a large company. Also, isn't the work life balance horrible for Chinese workers?

I don't know about the salaries, but let's keep in mind that Alibaba and Tencent are two of the biggest companies in the world.

Sure, but do the employees see any of that? Do Alibaba employees get generous equity grants? Vacation time? Cash bonuses? SV type salaries?

I'm not doubting China has some great companies and things going on, it's just a very bold claim with seemingly no evidence behind it. It's the kind of claim I hate.

"everyone knows" -> insert anecdote here

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#74

Post by diogenescynic »

ph0kz wrote: post #57
diogenescynic wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DACA is for people who were brought over as kids. Not really their fault. What are we supposed to do send them to a country they never even grew up in? TPS? Like Vietnam war era refugees? I mean, you’re clearly trying to conflate some big differences in immigration... No, I’m for immigration that’s actually needed—like doctors and specialized researchers. But having worked for an immigration firm an seen what a lot o…

Irrespective of the reason for non-citizens to be here, It could drive down wages. You, an Obama voter is echoing the sentiments of Trump supporters that the immigrants, illegal or otherwise is hurting American citizens.

Yeah, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I’m for letting immigrants into the country—but giving an unlimited number of visas to companies to bring over underpaid workers hurts everyone.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#75

Post by temp4358 »

There is so much hate for the H1-B visa, but let me play devil's advocate. US "lax" (not really) immigration policy improves the image of America/American companies abroad.

If US starts tightening immigration laws, US companies will start outsourcing their work (which they have already started). If they start to clamp down on outsourcing, countries like India have no incentive to let US to freely use their market. They would simply follow china's method and restrict entry to all foreign players. If US follows US first policy in everything, the third-world already suspicious of western countries will only see this as west's new imperial ambitions.

Software is easy to replicate, specially by people which have already worked in Google, Facebook, etc. People in third world already have expertise to set up the competition to US companies. All that is stopping them is competition from US companies.

US being the becon of freedom and hope the world is a net good for US and US businesses according to me.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#76

Post by cheeze »

briandear wrote: post #64
chottocharaii wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy for you to say. You're probably not bonded to your employer like the OP. Get your head out of the sand.

He can quit. If he's really "highly skilled" and there really is a "shortage," then it should be trivial to find another job and another visa sponsor.

Yeah. It's not that hard to move companies as a non-citizen. It's more difficult than a citizen, sure. But I agree with the poster above that I have many many friends who have done exactly this.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#77

Post by diogenescynic »

temp4358 wrote: post #75

There is so much hate for the H1-B visa, but let me play devil's advocate. US "lax" (not really) immigration policy improves the image of America/American companies abroad. If US starts tightening immigration laws, US companies will start outsourcing their work (which they have already started). If they start to clamp down on outsourcing, countries like India have no incentive to let US to freely use their market. Th…

That’s a fake threat. If they could outsource the work and pay less they already would. They aren’t keeping the jobs in America for their health...

Go do it then.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#78

Post by diogenescynic »

h1bslave wrote: post #15

I’ve been on h1b for over 7 years now , with no chance of getting a green card because I was born in India , all my immigrant friends who started working at the same time have already gotten their green cards - they all have the option to quit their jobs if they feel like they are being underpaid or exploited. But not me , I’m looking at 70 years before I get my freedom , until then I have to tolerate the indentured…

Why do you think you’re entitled to it at all? It’s a lottery, get in line.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#79

Post by briandear »

throwaway8611 wrote: post #55
diogenescynic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense to you personally, but most Americans would probably be happier with fewer H-1Bs. They are only brought over to depress wages and underpay workers. So while I sympathize with your condition, I’d like an actual ban on these types of fake specialized knowledge visa categories. L-1 and H-1 are so grossly abused it’s not even funny. The entire prevailing wage is famed and they bring over people from India with…

There are many kinds of people on H1Bs. There are people that are brought here by the consultancies you mention and there are graduates from American Universities who get H1Bs after or during their OPT. While I've heard that H1Bs are brought over to depress wages, although there is no data to back that up. In both these cases, there are a mixture of really good people, really bad people who got lucky and everything i…

> While I've heard that H1Bs are brought over to depress wages, although there is no data to back that up.

Then why would Disney fired experienced workers to H1Bs? Where the H1Bs that the experienced workers actually trained, more experienced? Clearly not. There is no universe where it could be argued that Disney had a shortage of skilled workers given that they fired the very skilled workers they claimed a shortage of.

> My company interviews hundreds of people, settling for 'good enough' and yet struggles to fill many open positions.

You know how you don't struggle to fill open positions? You raise the salary offered, improve the benefits, the working conditions. Netflix doesn't have a shortage of workers, but Cisco might. Compare the pay differences between those two companies and you'll quickly understand what "shortage" really means. I find it extremely hard to believe there's a shortage of entry level sysadmins, yet you'll find plenty of H1Bs working sysadmin jobs while experienced Americans sit on the sidelines because their salary requirements are too high (meaning, they expect something more than $75k per year in the Bay Area.) That doesn't define a shortage -- those workers do exist but H1B is cheaper.

Of course, there are outliers like those ultra-genius Nobel winner-level people -- however, there's an "O" visa for that category of extraordinary high achiever. Your average H1B is not particularly extraordinary. I've never in my life met anyone working for Infosys that I'd trust to program an alarm clock, let alone trust with mission critical code. However, I've also worked with a few extraordinary H1Bs -- people far smarter than I'll ever be -- but those are certainly the exception in terms of statistics of the visa.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#80

Post by untog »

wuxb wrote: post #11
mykowebhn wrote: post #8

Granted that H-1B visas should ostensibly be filled only for positions where it is difficult to find qualified American citizens or permanent residents, but in all honesty are the Department of Labor's allegations really that surprising? In the Bay Area, qualified job candidates are so scarce that it's quite common for citizens/permanent-residents to change jobs frequently. H1-B candidates are attractive for companie…

So an obvious solution would be allowing H1B holders to freely change jobs, even with gaps. Accordingly, the employers won't be able to lock the visa holders. Then there will be fair competition that makes sense. But anyway the big companies don't want to lose the "lock" so it would be hard to change.

Clarification in case any H1B holders are reading: you absolutely can transfer your H1B visa, though I think a break of more than 30 days would be a violation.

The trick is when you H1B employer also offers to sponsor your green card. That isn't transferrable, and if you're from certain countries (like India) it can take up to ten years to get one.

Post reply on HN