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Oslo made its city center basically car-free

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Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#361

Post by truthwhisperer »

themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

Totally agree. I suggest that we exchange each car for one homeless person or one truck for one homeless person with hiv. Inclusive all the All way.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#362

Post by inferiorhuman »

graeme wrote: post #129
openbasic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. So much this. Most supporters of anti-automobile policies think that everyone is a healthy young adult grabbing his latte on the way to his Scrum daily meeting. No responsibilities with dependents, such as children, elderly or disabled family members. No plantar fasciitis, lordosis, arthritis, etc. Grow up. Start seeing the world from the perspective of others.

My grandma never had a car in a major pedestrianized city. She lived independently until the age of 92. She took buses and walked everywhere. My other grandmother mostly walked around town. My parents have a car but mostly walk around town. Would I be right in thinking that you come from a car centric area where people don't walk and this lose their ability to get around at a younger age? Perhaps you have difficulty…

When my father was diagnosed with a terminal illness one of the first things the doctor did was to submit revocation paperwork to the DMV. Unfortunately he lived in a very automobile-addicted area and being unable to drive proved very isolating for him.

The solution, of course, wasn't to figure out how to get him behind the wheel. The solution is weaning communities off of their car dependence.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#363

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

danjayh wrote: post #58
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

There are plenty of handicapped, disabled, elderly people on public transit.

You are fortunate enough to be able to afford cars and think that we should continue to design around what works for you. That simply benefits you - and not the handicapped, disabled people who use public transit every day.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#364

Post by inferiorhuman »

apendleton wrote: post #156
rayiner wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly agree. Also let's end welfare for upper middle class commuters by ending subsidies for rail transit. Here in D.C., taxpayers subsidize Metro commuters, who are typically white collar and make more than the average taxpayer in DC/MD/VA. Why would you expect anything else, given the stratospheric price of housing near Metro stations? Low-income people take the bus. That's what we should subsidize.

Both rail and bus are heavily subsidized -- buses come nowhere close to paying for either their operating or capital expenses with fare revenue. It is probably true that if you broke down the WMATA budget and looked at the degree of subsidy per passenger mile on rail vs. bus, you'd get a higher number for rail than bus, but it's tricky to do an apples-to-apples comparison because the rail figure will include the cost…

WMATA is at the low end of the farebox recovery ratio (42%). Meanwhile SF's Muni is at 35%, BART at 70%, and Caltrain at 63%.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#365

Post by sorenjan »

danjayh wrote: post #276
sorenjan wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need a two tonne steel box, or could you make due with an electric wheelchair?

Electric wheelchairs typically go 3-4 mph. They are not a replacement for point-to-point transit. My area also swings from -5f in the winter to +105f in the summer, so anything that's not climate controlled is quite unpleasant.

I think an electric wheelchair makes perfect sense when compared to walking, and using public transport. There are small foldable ones that can fit in a taxi or Uber as well.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#366

Post by inferiorhuman »

mamurphy wrote: post #139
rayiner wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly agree. Also let's end welfare for upper middle class commuters by ending subsidies for rail transit. Here in D.C., taxpayers subsidize Metro commuters, who are typically white collar and make more than the average taxpayer in DC/MD/VA. Why would you expect anything else, given the stratospheric price of housing near Metro stations? Low-income people take the bus. That's what we should subsidize.

Life and government isn't this simple. Subsidizing metro draws in high-income earners and thus builds the economy and increases tax revenues. The stratospheric price of housing near Metro stations increases real estate tax revenues as well.

The increased cost of housing near transit also reflects that various costs associate with sprawl no longer have to be funded (e.g commute time, roads).

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#367

Post by samstave »

freyir wrote: post #277
samstave wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling utter bullshot on this post as i have literally been a bike/pedestrian in SF for now going on a decade exclusively. In working in tech and knowing the city inside and out. This is flatly not an issue. Further, i used to live upper market at twin peaks - and taking the bus was not a problem other that the normal muni issues whoch this discussion is not about. Ive biked and walked and commuted literally every a…

I guess you don't live in Russian Hill, Nob Hill, Pac Heights, etc. And even if you, personally, are able to bike up those hills, the vast majority of residents would have a very tough time. Plenty of SF is bikeable, but to say hills are a non-issue citywide is ridiculous.

Are you literally focusing on that population of residents?

Name a freaking company who's office is in ANY of those locations who's employee population we are talking about.

What's ridiculous is you sound like a person who thinks their millenial perspective is the only thing that matters.

Let me leave you with a litteral quote from my interview at twitter in 2008:

" So tell me how you will do things differently because most people I interview came from facebook as their first job out of college and think that their way is the only way to do anything"

Yeah - you sound like those people. Moronic to think that we are worried about "commuting to russian hill" jeasus.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#368

Post by vonmoltke »

adrianN wrote: post #64
danjayh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

I'd be completely okay with cars for disabled people, deliveries, and people who have to transport a lot of stuff like tools for their job. But >90% of all cars on the road are driven by able-bodied people with nothing but themselves to transport.

> But >90% of all cars on the road are driven by able-bodied people with nothing but themselves to transport.

Nowhere near 90% of cars in city centers, where all these bans are taking place, fit that description.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#370

Post by vonmoltke »

fouc wrote: post #306
danjayh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

Worst case is that 99% of the rest of the city is still accessible by automobile. High density areas like city downtowns should cater to pedestrians more due to that being the more humane overall. As other people mentioned, there'd be workarounds for people with mobility issues for sure.

In what city is the high-density area confined to 1% of the city area?
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