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Oslo made its city center basically car-free

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Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#241

Post by hannasanarion »

rootusrootus wrote: post #44
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

Cities existed before cars, and had horses crapping all over the place.

Dunno about you, but I've never seen electric bicycle poop.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#242

Post by tshaddox »

_zskd wrote: post #80
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I agree with this so much. I am sick and tired of subsidizing drivers. I am done with the irresponsible and unsustainable policy of ignoring costs associated with road maintenance in the United States. I am done with building roads through lower-class neighborhoods and damaging their property values. End welfare for drivers. Make the drivers pay their own way.

I used to follow libertarian (the American propertarian kind) communities online, and one of the recurring challenges to libertarians is "but who will build the roads if government doesn't?" Of course, libertarians have all sorts of detailed responses to this challenge. Now that I don't really follow or align with libertarianism any more, my response is simple: if government subsidized roads less, there would probably just be fewer roads, and that would probably be a really good thing.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#243

Post by anyfoo »

dbdjfjrjvebd wrote: post #237
anyfoo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the city not put road grit onto the bike paths in Oslo? They certainly do in Munich.

They are not many bike paths. For example there are non on my commute.

Ah, that's the major difference then, I guess.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#244

Post by drcross »

danjayh wrote: post #58
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

There's always someone, no matter what, who rails as hard as they can for the victim card. Go and take a look in the mirror.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#245

Post by stouset »

alboy wrote: post #221
stouset wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Riding a motorcycle amongst CA drivers is taking on a significant injury risk. More than in anywhere else? Citation needed. I ran the numbers for myself. Statistically, the amount of time I save per day by riding a motorcycle in San Francisco heavily outpaces the number of average life-minutes lost due to the risks of riding a motorcycle.

> Statistically, the amount of time I save per day by riding a motorcycle in San Francisco heavily outpaces the number of average life-minutes lost due to the risks of riding a motorcycle. Those are the minutes spent stuck in traffic vs the minutes spent being dead. Some people might want to use a weighted model here.

Minutes spent stuck in traffic, to me, are almost worse than being dead.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#246

Post by themoat »

stouset wrote: post #184
johngalt wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding a motorcycle amongst CA drivers is taking on a significant injury risk. The efficiency gains of a motorcycle vs economy car aren't that significant and the emissions are worse.

> Riding a motorcycle amongst CA drivers is taking on a significant injury risk. More than in anywhere else? Citation needed. I ran the numbers for myself. Statistically, the amount of time I save per day by riding a motorcycle in San Francisco heavily outpaces the number of average life-minutes lost due to the risks of riding a motorcycle.

I ride a motorcycle, but you and I "balance our books" very differently.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#247

Post by Fins »

themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

Small enough pedestrian zones and improved public transit are something cities (especially US cities), the hatred and proposals are exactly what you'd expect to hear from an overpaid young professional with no responsibilities, commute by an electric scooter, food catered at the office and delivered to home by some Munchery. Sure! You might be paid well enough that you won't notice that everything becomes more expensive, and if someone who actually works for a living goes broke because in the real world (as opposed to one where pink unicorns pull wonder-busses from any point A to any point B) they now have to pay $100 a day just to get to work and back home. Let them eat cake?

And sure, yes, cities existed before cars. And people lived in caves with no running water, too. Or, maybe more pertinently, people lived just fine (oftentimes better) without a good chunk of "disruption" and "innovation" that comes out of SF/SV. Should we ban them as well? Or maybe tax every Twitter and AirBnB... say a Billion a year to partially cover all the negative externalities?

Actually, the last one might be a good idea. /s

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#248

Post by gotocake »

tshaddox wrote: post #242
_zskd wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this so much. I am sick and tired of subsidizing drivers. I am done with the irresponsible and unsustainable policy of ignoring costs associated with road maintenance in the United States. I am done with building roads through lower-class neighborhoods and damaging their property values. End welfare for drivers. Make the drivers pay their own way.

I used to follow libertarian (the American propertarian kind) communities online, and one of the recurring challenges to libertarians is "but who will build the roads if government doesn't?" Of course, libertarians have all sorts of detailed responses to this challenge. Now that I don't really follow or align with libertarianism any more, my response is simple: if government subsidized roads less, there would probabl…

The history of major roads, especially interstate highways, is a history of the need for roads capable of allowing large military vehicles and troop movements. Has that changed?

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#249

Post by pi-rat »

dbdjfjrjvebd wrote: post #182
adrianN wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the Netherlands for example manage just fine with cargo bikes and public transport.

Holland is flat and the winters are mild. Try getting a cargo bike up a 200 climb in minus temperatures. It is not something I do every day.

Electric bikes are getting more and more popular here in Norway (and we got hills and cold weather). Studded tires and an electric motor doing most of the work helps.

Re: Oslo made its city center basically car-free

#250

Post by yongjik »

danjayh wrote: post #58
themagician wrote: post #8

I want this so bad. My hatred for the automobile grows every day. The cost, the noise, the time wasted in traffic, the pollution, the ridiculous space wasted on parking. When you really add up the costs, both individual and to society, it’s absolutely insane. I wish the cost of gasoline was high enough to internalize all the costs and change behavior. Like really high. A dollar a mile. We are slaves to the automobile…

I'm amazed that so many people who consider themselves inclusive in their thoughts don't realize how exclusionary anti-automobile policies are. As someone who suffers from mild arthritis, the trip to the back of a Wal-Mart can be painful for me, and a walk or bike ride across a city block absolutely foreboding. On the bad days, even standing in line at a checkout for an extended period of time can send my knees and h…

It's not unusual in America to find shopping centers where you have to drive, park your car, and then walk several hundred feet to actually enter the store, thanks to the enormous parking lot, because everybody has to park.

So, I'm not exactly sure how much the car culture is actually working in your favor. The alternative (public transportation) means parking lots can be smaller and closer to the actual destination.

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