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US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

bbc.com

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Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#141

Post by brianwawok »

_djo_ wrote: post #80
jazzyk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strictly speaking, their pay is delayed - they will be paid for all the work, eventually. Still, regular employees should not be going through this, though.

None of the contractors will be paid, as I understand it, only permanent federal employees.

Contractors are not working now though they were sent home. There are 3 buckets of people:

1) Employees forced to work. Promised backpay by a resolution that was passed.

2) Employees not allowed to work. Promised backpay by a resolution. "Free vacation"

3) Contractors not allowed to work. Will not get backpay, money lost is "gone" forever.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#142

Post by dsfyu404ed »

s0rce wrote: post #57

Why can't the ATC adopt a funding model like the USPS so they don't have this problem in the future relying on appropriations. Can they basically charge airlines and other traffic for their services to fund the operations. I'm mostly curious if this is actually realistic.

>Why can't the ATC adopt a funding model like the USPS so they don't have this problem in the future relying on appropriations. Can they basically charge airlines and other traffic for their services to fund the operations. I'm mostly curious if this is actually realistic.

I'm not sure if it's economically realistic but it seems politically realistic.

The right should be fine with the idea of a government agency being less tax dependent and I'm not sure what problem the left would have with it. The corporate interests should also have no problem with it because it arguably gives them slightly more control (ATCs being less accountable to the .gov for funding them makes them more accountable to customers). I'm not familiar with how ATCs work but on the surface it seems like it could be a win-win-win.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#143

Post by j4kp07 »

mayneack wrote: post #11

Federal workers should start striking. I gather that in most cases they're explicitly prevented from striking, but I think there's a good chance that it's too unpopular to actually punish them. Also yesterday some leadership of the flight attendants union called for a general strike until it was over: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/could-an-unlikely-av...

Democrats could start by approving salary payments during the shutdown.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#144

Post by _djo_ »

jazzyk wrote: post #107
_djo_ wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the contractors will be paid, as I understand it, only permanent federal employees.

Yes, that comes with the territory (contract cancellations or delayed/non payments are risks associated with running any business).

Though of course the underlying risk is that few contractors are going to want to work for the US government again, making it a lot more difficult to fill some positions where skills are scarce.

The knock-on effects of this shutdown are going to be around for years.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#145

Post by flyingpenguin »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #55
creaghpatr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the airports remain shut down, the economic cost will quickly balloon to multiples of the $5.7B requested for the wall. It's literally a rounding error in the budget.

Nobody actually cares about the $5.7 billion dollars, it's chump change for the government. This is all about appearance. The Democrats will lose face if they sign off on a budget which allows him to build his wall, and Trump will lose face if he fails to start building it (presumably in time for the next election). (It's also notable that neither party, politically, has a good reason to end it. Trump will have a har…

It is also about not teaching people that you can subvert democratic practice and get what you want.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#146

Post by gdubs »

sremani wrote: post #52
wonderwonder wrote: post #24

Bearing in mind that ~40% of american's could not come up with $400 to cover emergencies, this is going to become more prevalent in the next few days / weeks as people will simply not be able to afford gas to get to their unpaid work. I read an article today discussing how TSA workers in HI are living in their cars in the airport parking lot as they cannot afford to commute. The FBI just cancelled its internship prog…

If you got to any bank website at least the ones I bank with, there is a flashing notice on the front page, if I were a federal worker who needs assistance due to shut down. I am sure, certain workers have easy ways than others but to say that at least some banks have not stepped up is incorrect.

I’m curious what the interest rate is. Because if you’re already tight enough to need a loan, the interest is gonna cut pretty deep, even if it’s a relatively low rate. My fear would be predatory terms targeted at a vulnerable group.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#147

Post by nodja »

andonisus wrote: post #84
volak wrote: post #59

FWIW - house Democrats have voted against paying workers three times (so far). Most recently yesterday https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/house-gop... OK - heres a left biased source: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/425858-house-rejects-gop-...

This is interesting. Did they give specific reasons for voting Nay (or abstaining)? Is it because it would not pass the Senate regardless?

It's misconstruing facts, a lot of the proposals are ridiculous. One yesterday included an approval of $5.7B to build a wall.

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#148

Post by skh »

volak wrote: post #59

FWIW - house Democrats have voted against paying workers three times (so far). Most recently yesterday https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/house-gop... OK - heres a left biased source: https://thehill.com/homenews/house/425858-house-rejects-gop-...

In situations like this people need to understand what exactly was being voted on. It's common in American federal politics for bills to be voted on that contain poison pills so that headlines like the story you linked to can be made. Both parties have passed bills in the respective chambers they control to end the shutdown.

At some level and at some point in time probably both parties will take the blame for this mess. However, the President appears to have put his party at a disadvantage in terms of public relations due his proudly shutting down the government:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP-q3KxCopM

Re: US shutdown: Flight delays caused by staff shortages

#149

Post by pjc50 »

clarkevans wrote: post #128
awinder wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the longest shutdown ever, so we're kinda past the "reasonable expectation" line when you're in uncharted historical waters...

In many western countries, when a government can't form a working coalition or agree on a budget, new elections are called.

Yes, this is a feature of Westminster systems, although it's actually possible to have a change of government in that situation without having fresh elections if enough MPs "cross the floor" or a coalition flips. We're extremely close to that now in Brexit.
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