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Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

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Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#181

Post by torpfactory »

claudiulodro wrote: post #5

As an Oregonian, I think the biggest contributor is definitely bumping the redemption value from 5 cents to 10 cents. At that price, it makes it economically viable for the homeless population to spend lots of time going around and gathering every available bottle. In my neighborhood, I even have homeless people digging through my recycling bins every few hours rummaging for bottles to cash in!

Oregonian here: We have had cans intended for redemption stolen from our backyard. They just took the whole bin with cans and walked off. I guess there was probably ~$25 of cans it in.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#182

Post by jdeibele »

I used to put my bottles and cans curbside. Most of the folks picking them up are, I'm sure, as honest as I am or even more so. They just need another source of income.

On the other hand, we and the neighbors have had things disappear. People have prowlers in their back yards "looking for cans". So it seemed like a good idea to stop setting them out or even having them visible.

What I do now: you can buy bags and bar code labels for about $.10/pair. When a bag is full of recyclables, you tie it off, put your label on it, and drop it off at one of the BottleDrop centers.

There's two kinds: one where they have people working there and one where they don't (the "Express" versions). At the Express places, they truck the bags to somewhere else where they're counted. They charge $.40/bag to count them.

So for $.50, or 5 bottles, I can have someone else count them instead of standing on the sticky, stinky floor to shove in bottles one at a time. It's about 8-10%, assuming you can get 50-60 bottles and cans in a bag.

There are also grocery stores where they let you drop off your empties and they count them and give the deposit to a specified charity.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#183

Post by wtvanhest »

schoen wrote: post #167
wtvanhest wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the law needs to change. If you don't have a place to drop off bottles/cans within 3 miles, the tax should be removed from items in those areas. It is completely pointless to have an incentive that can only be achieved by driving for 45 minutes.

I think it's much harder to claim CRV refunds, and many fewer people do so regularly, than the designers of the system anticipated.

At this point its simply a tax. I'm pretty sure that the people who collect them from trash cans gets cents on the dollars for the cans and a middle man is making the profit on transportation of the cans.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#184

Post by rtpg »

lolsal wrote: post #30
jwagenet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Frankly, I think it’s better that these cans and bottles are being recycled, fraudulently or otherwise. I’m sure it hurts the Oregon pocketbook, but according to the article, the cost of the program is only six figures. This is only a problem (cost wise) when redemption is over 1…

> I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Why do you doubt that it could be a high percentage? A huge number of folks live in Vancouver across the OR/WA border and commute into Portland every day, and do their shopping in OR for the lack of sales tax.

It's 10 cents a bottle. Are we really at the point in our society where someone is simultaneously commuting from Vancouver yet is still in such a precarious situation that it's worth it to collect a bunch of bottles to trade them in?

100 bottles is only $10! Think about the amount of effort required for this

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#185

Post by ars »

moate wrote: post #160
ars wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sheet of paper can easily hold 60 barcodes, and costs about 5 cents to copy. A pack of gluesticks is $1 and can handle hundreds of bottles.

Okay, so you're down to $.0499 (aprox) per bottle. That's not taking into account the time needed to do this, or the time needed to collect the bottles, or the gas/equipment needed to haul the bottles. This sounds like a dozens of dollars level scam, not millions.

$0.05 and 10 seconds per bottle is $18/hour, which is decent. (Although that doesn't account for actually getting the bottle, or travel, or redeeming the bottle which isn't very fast.)

> not millions

No, not individually, but if tons of people are doing it all day, it adds up.

And bumping the fee to $0.10 makes it $36/hour which is very attractive to someone who doesn't have a job.

Again, the actual earnings are lower, but I think it's a realistic type of fraud.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#186

Post by [deleted] »

aodin wrote: post #103
nkurz wrote: post #9

There is fear that some significant portion of the recent increase in redemption rate may be due to fraud. Oregon recently increased the redemption from 5 cents to 10 cents, but the neighboring state of Washington still does not have a deposit. This creates an incentive for people to scavenge bottles in Washington and return them across the border in Oregon. Here's a recent article about the problem: "Oregon senator…

As others have pointed out, Michigan has had a 10 cent deposit since 1978 and consistently has redemption rates over 90%, even hitting 94.2% in 2014: http://www.bottlebill.org/legislation/usa/michigan.htm The fear that these rates were the product of fraud even lead to amendments to the recycling act in 2008, namely adding a state-specific mark to bottles. Yet the redemption rate remains over 90%.

[deleted]

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#187

Post by lolsal »

megy wrote: post #171
lolsal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Why do you doubt that it could be a high percentage? A huge number of folks live in Vancouver across the OR/WA border and commute into Portland every day, and do their shopping in OR for the lack of sales tax.

Sure, but how many are going to drag there bottles across the border for a few cents, dollars at the most?

You are seriously underestimating the amount of money involved, and what it means to the folks that do it. My neighbor recycles trash bags full of cans at a time and nets 20-40 bucks a bag. He does this a couple of times a month. For very little effort he's making an extra hour or two worth of wages just for taking a bag into recycling. It's extremely minimal work since he does it on his way to/from work, and absolutely a non-trivial gain for him.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#188

Post by lolsal »

evjim wrote: post #51
lolsal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Why do you doubt that it could be a high percentage? A huge number of folks live in Vancouver across the OR/WA border and commute into Portland every day, and do their shopping in OR for the lack of sales tax.

You just said it. They do their shopping in Oregon. So they probably buy the bottles their tax free. Save ten cents on tax, spend it on deposit. It's a wash to the consumer.

The lack of sales tax doesn't really affect whether or not they buy considerable number of cans/bottles in OR - I just meant to say that it is _very common_ for Vancouver folks to shop for general goods after work in Portland, or drive into Portland area on the weekends. If they are saving bottles/cans it's very likely not an extra trip for them.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#189

Post by craftyguy »

nkurz wrote: post #9

There is fear that some significant portion of the recent increase in redemption rate may be due to fraud. Oregon recently increased the redemption from 5 cents to 10 cents, but the neighboring state of Washington still does not have a deposit. This creates an incentive for people to scavenge bottles in Washington and return them across the border in Oregon. Here's a recent article about the problem: "Oregon senator…

> and discovered that others in his neighborhood also reported having their recycling bins rummaged through in pursuit of bottles and cans.

Yea, I'm in Oregon, and this happens to me too. Honestly, who cares? What they are "stealing" (lol) is being recycled. If this senator cared enough, he would take his bottles/cans to the store and get credit for it. The point is, he doesn't care that much, but somehow feels entitled to something he doesn't care about.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#190

Post by mdorazio »

RosanaAnaDana wrote: post #180
claudiulodro wrote: post #5

As an Oregonian, I think the biggest contributor is definitely bumping the redemption value from 5 cents to 10 cents. At that price, it makes it economically viable for the homeless population to spend lots of time going around and gathering every available bottle. In my neighborhood, I even have homeless people digging through my recycling bins every few hours rummaging for bottles to cash in!

Another Oregonian checking in. I wonder if there is any correlation between rates of homelessness and redemption rate; my biased impression is that homelessness in general has only increased with my time here, as well as the rate at which I see (almost exclusively) homeless or very low income individuals recycling. I personally will not be bothered redeeming in Oregon, since all cans and bottles have to be manually f…

It's not your imagination. Oregon's homeless population has been increasing several percentage points year over year [1]. It's even worse in California.

[1] https://www.oregon.gov/ohcs/ISD/RA/2017-Point-in-Time-Estima...

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