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Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

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Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#141

Post by jandrese »

rootusrootus wrote: post #114
theoh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the Oregon program "know" if a returned bottle is bona fide or fraudulent (from out of state)? I don't see how substituting units of a fungible quantity, which identical bottles seem to be, can have the consequences you suggest.

Years ago we did it by barcode. It sounds like there is some reason that does not work now, but back when I would bother to return soda cans, the machine that collected/crushed them would scan the barcode and reject the out-of-state ones.

This would be a problem if you crush the cans to save space. It makes transport of the empties a much bigger hassle if you can't crush them.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#142

Post by dgzl »

nkurz wrote: post #9

There is fear that some significant portion of the recent increase in redemption rate may be due to fraud. Oregon recently increased the redemption from 5 cents to 10 cents, but the neighboring state of Washington still does not have a deposit. This creates an incentive for people to scavenge bottles in Washington and return them across the border in Oregon. Here's a recent article about the problem: "Oregon senator…

Homegrown Oregonian here: it's common knowledge that to maximize profit against the system, a person should work in Vancouver WA where cost of living is low and state income tax doesn't exist, and then shop in Oregon where sales tax doesn't exist. The bottle return scheme wouldn't surprise me either, as the PNW is profoundly supportive of recycling.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#143

Post by cronix »

sokoloff wrote: post #21
jwagenet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Frankly, I think it’s better that these cans and bottles are being recycled, fraudulently or otherwise. I’m sure it hurts the Oregon pocketbook, but according to the article, the cost of the program is only six figures. This is only a problem (cost wise) when redemption is over 1…

There's no doubt some significant overhead to the program, that is likely modeled as being covered in part by the "slippage" of bottles that don't get returned. Fraudulent returns cut into that allowance, even before the redemption rate hits 100%.

Yeah, like building huge dedicated recycling centers. Those aren't cheap. You used to return the bottle/can to the store, who returned them back to the distribution companies when they were dropping off new orders. Now there are huge areas where they got rid of returning to the place of purchase and you have to return them to these large, brand new, dedicated recycling centers. I have no idea why they do that, or who pays for that. It seemed logical to return them utilizing the existing infrastructure (stores) that were selling the products.

Edit: more info.

One thing about the recycling centers though - you have to have an account, and you have to prove you are an OR resident to use them. I imagine that cuts down on a lot of out of state cans.

Map: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&q=portla...

More info on the recycling centers: https://www.bottledropcenters.com/

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#144

Post by dgzl »

evjim wrote: post #51
lolsal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Why do you doubt that it could be a high percentage? A huge number of folks live in Vancouver across the OR/WA border and commute into Portland every day, and do their shopping in OR for the lack of sales tax.

You just said it. They do their shopping in Oregon. So they probably buy the bottles their tax free. Save ten cents on tax, spend it on deposit. It's a wash to the consumer.

Many people in Oregon just give away their cans to the street. I imagine this is true in Washington as well. If a person collects free cans in Washington, where they're worth less, and brings them to Oregon for a higher return, then they would be gaming the system.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#145

Post by rmason »

We're doing slightly better on the redemption rate here in Michigan though it has slipped in the past several years. Since our economy has revived I anecdotally see fewer people out collecting bottles from the side of the road.

http://www.bottlebill.org/legislation/usa/michigan.htm

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#146

Post by duskwuff »

dragonwriter wrote: post #65
jwagenet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California, but I doubt that it can be an incredibly high percentage. Frankly, I think it’s better that these cans and bottles are being recycled, fraudulently or otherwise. I’m sure it hurts the Oregon pocketbook, but according to the article, the cost of the program is only six figures. This is only a problem (cost wise) when redemption is over 1…

> I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some spillover from Washington or California Probably not systematically from CA, which also has a bottle deposit (though there may be some arbitrage opportunity since the CRV is, IIRC, 5¢ for some containers that have a 10¢ deposit on Oregon.)

There's a bigger reason why there's unlikely to be much spillover from CA: geography. The CA/OR border is in the middle of the Siskiyou Mountains. There are few major cities near the border -- the closest pair are Yreka, CA and Ashland, OR, and they're 40-50 miles apart.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#148

Post by dgzl »

blahyawnblah wrote: post #139
jimmar wrote: post #132

I live in Michigan and I hate the bottle deposits. I would strongly prefer just putting bottles in recycling. Bottle deposit machines break down frequently, the machines fill up, they only take cans sold at the store you bought them from, that part of the store smells bad and is dirty and sticky, and the cans take up a non-trivial amount of space in your home.

I'm a lifelong Oregonian and I agree. Taking bottles back for redemption is a pain. The places stink, there's always a line, and always one or two broken machines. Then you get a whole $10. I just stick everything in regular recycling. I would guess homeless people are the only reason it's anywhere near 90%. Everyone I know does curb side recycling.

I think you've identified a point against your argument without realizing it. If we didn't put dollar value on recycling, the recycling wouldn't be performed at the rate it currently is.

Michigan is different however. When you spend half the year surrounded by snow and freezing temps, even the idea of going outside is numbing.

I was living in Michigan and Illinois this last year, and they are light-years away when it comes to interest and availability of recycling process, compared to Oregon.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#149

Post by dgzl »

rmason wrote: post #145

We're doing slightly better on the redemption rate here in Michigan though it has slipped in the past several years. Since our economy has revived I anecdotally see fewer people out collecting bottles from the side of the road. http://www.bottlebill.org/legislation/usa/michigan.htm

I was just living in Michigan and I have to say, recycling was always an afterthought to people I met. Likewise, your state is covered in snow and freezing for half the year. This are big challenges for anyone.

Re: Oregon Bottle Deposit System Hits 90 Percent Redemption Rate

#150

Post by JTbane »

nkurz wrote: post #9

There is fear that some significant portion of the recent increase in redemption rate may be due to fraud. Oregon recently increased the redemption from 5 cents to 10 cents, but the neighboring state of Washington still does not have a deposit. This creates an incentive for people to scavenge bottles in Washington and return them across the border in Oregon. Here's a recent article about the problem: "Oregon senator…

Seems fine to me, the state should write off the cost of any """fraud""" as combating the negative externalities of plastic bottle production.
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