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DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

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Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#41
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the community has been able to use the published paper to replicate all of AlphaZero's results in both chess, go (and a number of other similar combinatorial games) and get similar performance should lay your concerns to rest.

Can you provide some links?

http://zero.sjeng.org/ for AlphaZero playing Go, and http://lczero.org/ is at least par with AlphaZero Chess based off match reproductions.

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that the community has been able to use the published paper to replicate all of AlphaZero's results in both chess, go (and a number of other similar combinatorial games) and get similar performance should lay your concerns to rest.

Can you provide some links?

LeelaChess is one example for Chess.

https://github.com/LeelaChessZero/lczero

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#43
post #35

Wow, Alphastar was able to 5-0 vs TLO (when he was off racing) and 5-0 vs Mana in an impressive manner. I am quite impressed that DeepMind has been able to take down Go and now Starcraft. From here on out, if DeepMind makes an announcement about a demonstration of X, I expect them to beat the top humans at X. Edit: In the live game Mana is able to beat Alphastar. Alphastar was trained with a more limited camera than…

TLO and Mana are good players but Im not sure they fulfill your criteria of top humans at X

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#44
Am I the only one actually NOT impressed by this? I mean they all claim its so great that the AI is maybe challenging some wisdom and that overproducing probes might be a way to go. I do not know, I am not that deep into SC but if someone attack you who put those resources into units instead of probs, that can decide between win and lose or not?

What the AI did in this game to win is NOT the overproduction of drones, it was simply and purely and to me not impressive at all the micro. Of course a AI can micro those stalkers like crazy in a inhuman way all across the map. I think you can even bookmark map locations with shortcuts in SC right? Still the AI does not think like a human this means it can manage all this units in parallel and again, THAT is what won the game.

I never played Go but that was way more impressive to me then this. A human automatically has a huge handycap again a AI in SC. Of course they picked some nice guy who is all positive and good sports about it, exited about "new strategies" when in fact he just got wrecked because of superhuman micro. Not saw the other games but my guess is that micro always plays a huge part.

And I just read in another comment that the AI was actually slower in build order ...

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#45
Very impressive... but it seems like the AI relies entirely on abusing blink stalkers which with perfect micro is basically impossible to counter. It is no surprise it can crush pros when it has perfect timing and zero mistakes in using these units.

I think the coolest thing is how the play of AI mirrors a similar style to how pros have developed (Micro harrasing early, early expansions, a very good understanding of when to attack/retreat). It looks just like your average pro..until you see its god tier micro.

Well, after seeing Mana crush it in the live game it seems the AI had zero clue as to what to do... it seems like it calculated it couldn't win a fight so let Mana destroy its entire base. So, just like with the Dota AI we see pros can exploit and win easily once they play around the micro advantages.

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#46
post #4

I am somewhat disappointed that they stream only hand-picked replays. For a big, announced presentation, they should be at a stage to stream live games (like OpenAI did with Dota). However, apart from that great work by Deepmind and I am excited to follow the progress in this area.

They're streaming a single live game right now! They explained that the research build of the game being used doesn't have an "observer" mode so it's not quite suitable for streaming live games — and, in fact, the games that they were showing were played over a month ago. (The current live game is being shown from the human player's point of view, and as such is a bit… dizzying.)

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#48
post #35

Wow, Alphastar was able to 5-0 vs TLO (when he was off racing) and 5-0 vs Mana in an impressive manner. I am quite impressed that DeepMind has been able to take down Go and now Starcraft. From here on out, if DeepMind makes an announcement about a demonstration of X, I expect them to beat the top humans at X. Edit: In the live game Mana is able to beat Alphastar. Alphastar was trained with a more limited camera than…

TLO and Mana are good players but Im not sure they fulfill your criteria of top humans at X

[deleted]

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#49
post #45

Very impressive... but it seems like the AI relies entirely on abusing blink stalkers which with perfect micro is basically impossible to counter. It is no surprise it can crush pros when it has perfect timing and zero mistakes in using these units. I think the coolest thing is how the play of AI mirrors a similar style to how pros have developed (Micro harrasing early, early expansions, a very good understanding of…

As the commentators mentioned, it's no use building units to counter your enemy's army (Immortals over Stalkers) when the enemy can control their army so much more effectively.

I have to wonder if future competitive games will need to take into account the abilities of reinforcement learning algorithms when releasing balance patches.

Re: DeepMind StarCraft II Demonstration [video]

#50
post #35

Wow, Alphastar was able to 5-0 vs TLO (when he was off racing) and 5-0 vs Mana in an impressive manner. I am quite impressed that DeepMind has been able to take down Go and now Starcraft. From here on out, if DeepMind makes an announcement about a demonstration of X, I expect them to beat the top humans at X. Edit: In the live game Mana is able to beat Alphastar. Alphastar was trained with a more limited camera than…

TLO and Mana are good players but Im not sure they fulfill your criteria of top humans at X

According to a site [1] Mana is 19th. While that is probably overly high, I would say he is easily in the top 200 Starcraft 2 players in the world. I would also say that to get from beating a top 200 human to beating all humans is much smaller than from scratch to beating a top 200 human.

[1] https://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/rankings

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