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Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

nytimes.com

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Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#251

Post by EE84M3i »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #239
jandrese wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to write a script to constantly monitor my school's class scheduling system to get into a couple of classes. It was an interesting script because the system was an IBM 3270 style mainframe.

How did you test such a script? I always thought about doing this, but since class signups only opened twice a year (once per semester), and that was the same time I needed to actually sign up for the classes, I concluded there would never be a time to debug and refine such a script.

When I was in school, I just had a python script that diffed the relevant part of the web page, and sent an email/SMS to my cell phone on any changes in the output. It didn't automatically do the registration though, which would have been slick.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#252

Post by ryanmcbride »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #239
jandrese wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to write a script to constantly monitor my school's class scheduling system to get into a couple of classes. It was an interesting script because the system was an IBM 3270 style mainframe.

How did you test such a script? I always thought about doing this, but since class signups only opened twice a year (once per semester), and that was the same time I needed to actually sign up for the classes, I concluded there would never be a time to debug and refine such a script.

I've written a couple of scripts over the years to email me when certain things happen on things I don't own, and as long as you're cool with a few false positives, it's not too difficult.

Say you're waiting for something on a website to become available. I'd look for some language on the page about availability that's likely to change when available. I don't know what they're going to change it to, but I know that it'll (probably change). I set up a script to run every few minutes to check that particular spot on the page. If it changes, I get an email.

Maybe I got an email when it changed from 'unavailable' to 'available soon', but that's okay, that means it'll definitely work when it's available for real.

There's always a chance that it won't work, but if you can reasonably assert what is likely to change, it's very easy to monitor it.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#253

Post by philwelch »

tzs wrote: post #219
whatshisface wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statisticians are actually the winners on this one: https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/files/media/2017-18_appli... (Although they are not that far from a few other majors, it is an interesting read in any case.)

The LSAT is an interesting test. One big section is "analytical reasoning", which has you solving logic games. These are actually kind of fun. After I took the LSAT, and scored pretty well (99.6 percentile), including a perfect score on analytical reasoning, I was in the supermarket and saw at the magazine rack, down in the section with the crossword puzzle magazines, a magazine of logic puzzles just like those from…

Relatedly: Bletchley Park deliberately sought out the very same (at the time, much younger) ladies to work on codebreaking tasks:

> The heads of Bletchley Park next looked for women who were linguists, mathematicians, and even crossword experts. In 1942 the Daily Telegraph hosted a competition where a cryptic crossword was to be solved within 12 minutes. Winners were approached by the military and some were recruited to work at Bletchley Park, as these individuals were thought to have strong lateral thinking skills, important for codebreaking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Bletchley_Park

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#254

Post by TheLoneTechNerd »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #239
jandrese wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to write a script to constantly monitor my school's class scheduling system to get into a couple of classes. It was an interesting script because the system was an IBM 3270 style mainframe.

How did you test such a script? I always thought about doing this, but since class signups only opened twice a year (once per semester), and that was the same time I needed to actually sign up for the classes, I concluded there would never be a time to debug and refine such a script.

I've written this type of script before - I didn't need too much in the way of debugging. Mine (similar to GP, it seems) didn't actually do the registration, just save the current state of known divs or even the whole page. Then it would send me an update if that changed.

So, I didn't need to debug what happens when the class shows "open" - I just saved the div that said "closed" and sent myself an email/text any time it didn't say exactly that.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#255

Post by andyv »

jandrese wrote: post #123
el_cujo wrote: post #105

>Aafia Ahmad, a sophomore computer science major at U.T. Austin, had hoped to take an elective course in computer security this semester. But when she tried to sign up during early registration in November, the course was already full. I know this doesn't refute the point the article is trying to make, but it doesn't seem that unreasonable to me that an underclassman might not get into a highly sought after elective.…

I had to write a script to constantly monitor my school's class scheduling system to get into a couple of classes. It was an interesting script because the system was an IBM 3270 style mainframe.

The 3270 was the terminal, not the mainframe itself. Many happy memories...

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#256

Post by woolvalley »

ck425 wrote: post #203
goldenkey wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not elitism because learning how things work "under the hood" at the age of 20, when you've been using tech your whole life, it shows a lack of curiosity. Tech is inherently obfuscated, nail-biting debugging, and a crap ton of reverse engineering. CS is a subset of mathematics. Software development is a lifestyle and an ethos. No degree will provide that in full capacity like being a curious kid who wrote game m…

You really do need privilege. Not everyone has regular access to a computer or internet even these days. And not every is in an environment where it's considered ok to sit and tinker with software all day. More importantly we need people in our industry who have interests beyond just tinkering with things all days. We need balanced individuals who have skills beyond just code, who can look at problems from a wide arr…

If you don't have regular access to a computer & the internet, then American CS college is miles away by cost comparison.

Like seriously, a $200 chromebook that you earn by working a local minimum wage job, a household that feeds and clothes you and your local public library wifi is what you would mostly need. The requirements for college far exceeds that by a mile.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#257

Post by manifestsilence »

stronglikedan wrote: post #135
amvalo wrote: post #96

This article is credentialism at its worst. The best programmers I know are self-taught, because they have a passion for it. I know people working at minimum wage, never enrolled in college, who got decent programming jobs after a year or two learning CS on their own. These people will always (I hope) form the core of the profession.

I didn't finish my degree, but I can tell you that "a year or two" is nowhere near enough to "learn CS on (one's) own". On a daily basis, I use the foundations that I did learn in a formal environment much more than any of my self-taught skills. It's a very complex subject that cannot be effectively navigated without some guidance. Otherwise, you may think you know it, but you're just skimming the surface (and likely…

I had some prior experience as a hobbiest, mostly messing with BASIC as a kid, but with no formal structure. I majored in music and after a bunch of wasted years in dead-end jobs, became a professional programmer after only 3 months self-study while on unemployment. So depending on your background and passion and luck, a year or two can be plenty. There are several other stories floating out there, like the blacksmith who became a Rails web dev after I think it was one year of study.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#258

Post by bitxbit »

amvalo wrote: post #96

This article is credentialism at its worst. The best programmers I know are self-taught, because they have a passion for it. I know people working at minimum wage, never enrolled in college, who got decent programming jobs after a year or two learning CS on their own. These people will always (I hope) form the core of the profession.

Programming is quite different from studying computer science. You can be a great programmer and be very mediocre in academics.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#259

Post by invalidOrTaken »

saberience wrote: post #178
stronglikedan wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't finish my degree, but I can tell you that "a year or two" is nowhere near enough to "learn CS on (one's) own". On a daily basis, I use the foundations that I did learn in a formal environment much more than any of my self-taught skills. It's a very complex subject that cannot be effectively navigated without some guidance. Otherwise, you may think you know it, but you're just skimming the surface (and likely…

I don't agree. Most people simply don't work very hard. For a motivated person, 1 year on their own time can easily be enough time to replicate a bachelor's in CS. When I did my bachelor's I was a young dumb kid who partied a lot and wasted a lot of time. Now, 14 years later and tons of industry experience, I realize how trivial the material in my CS bachelors was and really the big problem is that most students don'…

> I realize how trivial the material in my CS bachelors was and really the big problem is that most students don't really work that hard.

As someone who dropped out, worked in industry for a few years, and is now back as an undergrad(though in math, not CS), one thing that I feel is neglected in these discussions is the time-sucking effect of homework.

When I was self-teaching as a dev, I could learn something, play around with it until I felt I had a good grasp, and move on. A college course ties a lot of work to each concept. I have solved way too many matrices by hand in the last few weeks, for instance.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#260

Post by Wowfunhappy »

EE84M3i wrote: post #251
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you test such a script? I always thought about doing this, but since class signups only opened twice a year (once per semester), and that was the same time I needed to actually sign up for the classes, I concluded there would never be a time to debug and refine such a script.

When I was in school, I just had a python script that diffed the relevant part of the web page, and sent an email/SMS to my cell phone on any changes in the output. It didn't automatically do the registration though, which would have been slick.

Ah, sounds like your school's setup was different than mine. Our class signups opened once, at a set time and day, and it was just a matter of clicking the signup button fast enough. If people dropped, the spots would go to people on a waitlist, also determined at the original signup time.
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