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Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

nytimes.com

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Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#231

Post by seanfreiburg »

Fenrisulfr wrote: post #157

For all the people here that are downplaying the difficulty of getting into CS courses or degree programs please make sure to do some research. The article wades shallow in the details. It can be very difficult depending on the institution. Please see this comment brlow from a CS Professor about the difficulty of transferring into the Computer Science major at University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. As a former s…

I transferred into CS just before junior year at UIUC. The next year they raised minimum GPA to like 3.6 and I've heard it's even higher now. This was 4+ years ago and we had overflow classes where they had lectures on a projector because we couldn't fit into the 400 person lecture hall.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#232

Post by RandallBrown »

Aeolun wrote: post #121
jefftk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US, especially liberal arts colleges, is pretty wary of premature specialization. A common thing here is that you apply to a university, take classes in a range of departments, and then by the end of sophomore year (two of four) you decide on a major. I went to Swarthmore (referenced in the article) before CS enrollment surged (www.swarthmore.edu/computer-science/alumni) and there were some people in my CS classe…

I don’t get this. In the Netherlands I’ve studied for 4 years on hard computer science. Somehow someone from the US has done maybe 1.5 years of that and gotten the same degree?

Most majors have prerequisites to get in.

I took CS classes during all 4 years, but wasn't considered a CS major until the end of my 2nd year.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#233

Post by hoaw »

tlb wrote: post #214
hoaw wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idiots need to stop downvoting, the comment is entirely correct. You can read for yourself e.g. here https://www.uu.se/en/students/degrees-and-careers/degrees/le... , https://www.su.se/english/education/qualifications-degrees/r... , https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/sites/www.lunduniversity.lu...

Complaining about voting breaks this site's guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The rules states that you shouldn't comment about voting because it makes boring reading and doesn't make a difference. But it is both informative and does make a difference if you add new information, which I did. If the moderation team wants no comments about voting at all, they need to fix the issues of undue voting or change their reasoning. Until then I am going to act in the way that I think is best long term for a productive discussion. I don't have a problem people voting down an opinion, but when something is factual they should be called out on it. Because the people who do that are destroying the site for everyone. I don't see what your comment adds however, which should be the first rule of posting.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#234

Post by philsnow »

> Some universities now require incoming students to get accepted into computer science majors before they arrive on campus — and make it nearly impossible for other undergraduates to transfer into the major.

I was slotted into an adjacent major (applied for CS, got slotted into CSE) when I went to undergrad at UCLA, and had to demonstrate grades etc and apply to move into my desired at a strategic time (after enough of the cohort in my desired major had switched away to other majors). This has definitely happened before.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#235

Post by dgabriel »

dunpeal wrote: post #217
dgabriel wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many schools rely on adjuncts and lecturers to teach. They get paid very little, have no job security, no benefits, etc. But because the academic career path is so completely broken, lots of of very smart, talented instructors take on these jobs to make ends meet while they look for something else that allows them to pursue their passions with their extensive educations. Don't look down on these people. They're smart…

> lots of of very smart, talented instructors take on these jobs to make ends meet while they look for something else that allows them to pursue their passions with their extensive educations. My point is that you can't attract and retain top talent by offering low pay and no job security. You are confirming said point by showing any person of talent taking this job is only for a short, temporary period while looking…

Academic career paths are completely broken, which is why universities can and do get away with it. The problem is not that these instructors aren't "people of talent."

This article is mainly concerned with the humanities, but it covers well the issues at stake: https://www.chronicle.com/article/The-Great-Shame-of-Our/239...

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#236

Post by [deleted] »

jandrese wrote: post #226
seltzered_ wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been a thing for a long time. Back around 2003-2004 people at UTexas used a site called classgrabber. Back then people would also oversignup to classes then leave them after the first few class days of it didn’t work with schedule/etc.

I got into the AI class at my school (it was not overbooked) only to discover that I didn't have the necessary math background. Also, the class was going to be all math and wouldn't involve computers. It was not what I was expecting at all. Ended up dropping it after a week.

[deleted]

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#237

Post by otakucode »

This presents a more interesting problem than the article realizes. Computer Science has long suffered from overstuffed first year courses.... but only first year. By the second year, the vast majority of students have changed majors or otherwise left the computer science field. With even greater overcrowding of first-year courses, it probably makes it even harder for a person earnestly interested in computing to get in. At least when I attended school, every single person who gave their reason for choosing CS as 'I heard there was good money in it' was gone by the 3rd semester. I'm not entirely sure, but I've always suspected this might be due to the fact that while you can BS your way through an essay, you can't really do that with a compiler. Either that or a fundamental psychosocial resistance to hard-line logical thinking.

In any case, perhaps they should factor this in somehow and do a bit of preparatory work to give potential students a real sense of what the work and subject is actually going to be like before they fill up the first year courses and just waste everyones time before dropping out?

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#238

Post by dahfizz »

amvalo wrote: post #96

This article is credentialism at its worst. The best programmers I know are self-taught, because they have a passion for it. I know people working at minimum wage, never enrolled in college, who got decent programming jobs after a year or two learning CS on their own. These people will always (I hope) form the core of the profession.

You don't think it's possible to be passionate about CS and have a CS degree? That seems counter intuitive. My own anecdotal evidence disagrees with yours: the best and most passionate programmers I know are the ones who cared enough to get a real, formal education.

I really can't imagine a scenario where getting a formal education would make you a worse programmer. Having a degree does not necessarily mean you are a great programmer, but your self taught friends would still most likely be able to benefit from experienced and knowledgeable professors.

Re: Hard Part of Computer Science? Getting into Class

#239

Post by Wowfunhappy »

jandrese wrote: post #123
el_cujo wrote: post #105

>Aafia Ahmad, a sophomore computer science major at U.T. Austin, had hoped to take an elective course in computer security this semester. But when she tried to sign up during early registration in November, the course was already full. I know this doesn't refute the point the article is trying to make, but it doesn't seem that unreasonable to me that an underclassman might not get into a highly sought after elective.…

I had to write a script to constantly monitor my school's class scheduling system to get into a couple of classes. It was an interesting script because the system was an IBM 3270 style mainframe.

How did you test such a script?

I always thought about doing this, but since class signups only opened twice a year (once per semester), and that was the same time I needed to actually sign up for the classes, I concluded there would never be a time to debug and refine such a script.

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