If they really cared, the most environmentally friendly way to hold Davos would be over video conference
If only we had some way of communicating across long distances...
ah, yes, carrier pigeon!
1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
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Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#62I don't feel that articles like that contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way. Sure it's fun to point out that politicians are all hypocrits, but it doesn't help anybody at all. There are two possibilities: a) Private Jets are an important source of pollution. Then we should complain about private jets all the time, not just when we want to smear the people who use them to travel to climate talks. b) Or priva…
it's not pointless argument. a bunch of important people are getting together to talk about possible solutions for climate change. such solutions will probably involve significant sacrifices in our standard of living. the fact that they took pretty much the most wasteful means of travel should suggest something about who they expect to make these sacrifices.
spoiler: it's not them.
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#63Unpopular Opinion: There is no viable solution to climate change through policy or political action. No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet." Even people I know who are self-described ardent environmentalists still fly in planes frequently to all manner of touristy destinations so they can keep "collecting experiences." Shit, look at Paris. They champion this clima…
There's a pretty simple, viable solution. Carbon taxes. Yes, it's hard to get 195 countries to agree to implement a carbon tax, but you could have said the same thing about the ozone layer / CFC problem.
The solutions are all out there the issue goes even beyond getting the taxes in place to begin with, they have to be left in place even as they cost people money. CFCs were easier because it's a little esoteric and didn't actually change that much for people in their day to day life (helps that there were good enough replacements available for cheap). Carbon taxes on the other hand to work have to hurt enough to change behavior which will make them very unpopular.
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many companies bought a security and business continuity review and as a result the CEO must fly personal jet.
They must ? But who decided, exactly? Should they really be in charge if their decisions are bad for everyone? Shouldn't the people have the last word on such matter -- in a democracy at least?
Such a review is usually bought from an independent consulting company. Of course it is BS, yet nobody can do anything.
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#65Unpopular Opinion: There is no viable solution to climate change through policy or political action. No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet." Even people I know who are self-described ardent environmentalists still fly in planes frequently to all manner of touristy destinations so they can keep "collecting experiences." Shit, look at Paris. They champion this clima…
>No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet."
Seriously?
Who are you to say that of others?!
I'm French (Parisian, actually) and I keep demonstrating with yellow vests to try and force political action so we can save the biosphere.
I've been giving up on my personal comfort for years to reduce my environment footprint and help others do the same: I don't go skiing anymore, I don't fly, I stopped driving (this morning, like any, I rode a bicycle although it's snowing heavily in Paris), I spend more and more to buy organic food for the environment (not for my health but to support farmers who care), I spend hours every weeks in NGO and various "1901 associations" to better understand how other can save the environment (even though it's extremely difficult for many, especially the poor) and to help others caring about the environment. I've been changing everything in my life just for the environment (I don't want to live on a dying Earth and watch the world burn), and I really don't know what I can do more.
I'm really tired and comments like yours are really adding insult to the injury.
I really want to scream a big F*CK you to your face for saying that "No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet."". Can you understand that? You seem to have given up any hope in political change, but please, don't speak for other.
Edit: one might think I can simply afford spending times and money of trying to reduce the environment but when you've reduced consumption to the minimum, work in a company that try its best to develop technologies to trigger an energy revolution and spend as much time and money possible to accelerate the movement, there's little else one can do to not rerupt when hearing comments such as OP's (and go into depression). Go watch First Reformed if you haven't already.
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#66Unpopular Opinion: There is no viable solution to climate change through policy or political action. No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet." Even people I know who are self-described ardent environmentalists still fly in planes frequently to all manner of touristy destinations so they can keep "collecting experiences." Shit, look at Paris. They champion this clima…
There's a pretty simple, viable solution. Carbon taxes. Yes, it's hard to get 195 countries to agree to implement a carbon tax, but you could have said the same thing about the ozone layer / CFC problem.
The problem with carbon taxes is that they are regressive.
Carbon taxation plays out as a consumption tax on goods people consume in roughly the same quantities independent of income.
Take fuel as an example. The average american adult consumes about 550 gallons of gas a year for driving. It doesn't matter substantially how wealthy you are - there are only so many hours in the day to drive.
A $20/Metric Ton CO2eq carbon tax means a fuel price increase of 0.18c/gal, or about $100 a year per person. So we'd expect to see consumers either pay this additonal 18c to keep driving on gas, or some close equivalent cost if they find a competitive renewable fuel at this new price point.
So:
- If you are at the 10th income percentile, you make $11/hr and society now expects 9 hours of labor from each adult in your household a year to pay for energy transition
- If you are at the 90th income percentile, you make $29/hr, society expects you to work 3.4hrs a year to pay for transition.
This makes carbon taxation, and related schemes like gas taxes, politically unpopular. See for instance yellow vest protests in France, where gas taxation was a key issue.
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Incomes: https://www.bls.gov/oes/oes_perc.htm
Carbon tax -> fuel cost: http://www.rff.org/blog/2017/calculating-various-fuel-prices...
Fuel consumption: https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/01/14/heres-how-much-gas...
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#67Al Gore and Leonardo Di Caprio fly private jets all the time. Not sometimes, but always and very often. This is equivalent of Mahatma Gandhi driving among the people in the Rolls Royce to deliver his message!
1. No, it's not. 2. "Vintage Rolls Royce which seated Mahatma Gandhi and Queen of England fetches $705,300" http://luxurylaunches.com/transport/vintage_rolls_royce_whic...
Yes, it is. He was bare foot. Sure, he was seated in the RR with Queen, but that was a special circumstance, most likely part of politicking, and not his modus operandi. But for Al Gore and Leonardo, it’s their way of life.
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#68Unpopular Opinion: There is no viable solution to climate change through policy or political action. No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet." Even people I know who are self-described ardent environmentalists still fly in planes frequently to all manner of touristy destinations so they can keep "collecting experiences." Shit, look at Paris. They champion this clima…
It won't be an extinction event, it will be a gradual decline where the global poor suffer and die by the millions. "People will need to move" is not a realistic solution for massive amounts of people; they will starve, and drown. It's not happening because your friends fly to Burning Man, it's happening because global corporations are seeking profit above all else. Climate change cannot be combatted while capitalism…
You're kind of talking around the parent comment's point. Global corporations don't make that profit in a vacuum, they do it by selling people things they want. Barring huge technological progress, our current way of life has to change to sufficiently lower climate emissions. Regardless of what kind of government system controls industries, for carbon emissions to be sufficiently low, a lot of our current luxuries must become too expensive for most people. The scale of production/consumption itself is part of the problem.
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#69Unpopular Opinion: There is no viable solution to climate change through policy or political action. No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet." Even people I know who are self-described ardent environmentalists still fly in planes frequently to all manner of touristy destinations so they can keep "collecting experiences." Shit, look at Paris. They champion this clima…
>No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet." Seriously? Who are you to say that of others?! I'm French (Parisian, actually) and I keep demonstrating with yellow vests to try and force political action so we can save the biosphere. I've been giving up on my personal comfort for years to reduce my environment footprint and help others do the same: I don't go skiing anym…
.. but I thought the yellow vest protests directly lead to rolling back legislation meant to increase prices of CO2-polluting fuel, so that renewable fuels would be able to compete?
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/12/fr...
Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks
#70This is such a beautiful example. We all want change, but giving up modern conveniences is so hard. We might mock the people and their private planes but I don’t doubt someone would mock me for my cars, central air conditioning, etc.
Air conditioning, at least, is a natural to pair with large grid connected photovoltaic setups. The times of the day when you'll have the heaviest AC compressor motor/fan motor load in watts is also when the sun is up. Look an hourly demand curve chart for a central air conditioned house in Sacramento in mid summer, vs watt-hours produced during the same hours of the same day by a rooftop 10kW size pv system.
> The times of the day when you'll have the heaviest AC compressor motor/fan motor load in watts is also when the sun is up.
Not quite true, actually. Shifted by few hours.