Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 168 posts

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#41

Post by NickM »

This kind of finger pointing really misses the forest for the trees.

I know it's popular to hate on the global elite and jump all over their hypocrisy at any opportunity, but we need to take a long, hand look at ourselves for a minute. There are no headlines right now proclaiming outrage over the number of people flying private jets to go on fancy vacations, but tons of headlines about people flying jets to this climate talk. It's crazy and irrational for us to scream about people using private jets for events that are trying to help the world but then ignore all the selfish personal uses of private jets that are constantly happening for more frivolous reasons.

The outcome of talks like these is tremendously important if we want to address climate change; if allowing people to spend a little extra jet fuel will help encourage better attendance and ensure the attendees feel refreshed and sharp when they arrive, then that seems like an okay tradeoff to me. The extra CO2 being emitted here really is a tiny drop in the bucket.

EDIT: Judging by the silent downvotes, I guess people would rather just cling to their blind outrage than think critically about their own reactions to these things. Disappointing.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#42

Post by diminoten »

DougN7 wrote: post #2

This is such a beautiful example. We all want change, but giving up modern conveniences is so hard. We might mock the people and their private planes but I don’t doubt someone would mock me for my cars, central air conditioning, etc.

This is a silly and pointless conversation. The cost to the environment for 1500 jets once compared to the political improvements that could result is a drop in the bucket.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#43

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

jellicle wrote: post #27

I guess we're going to do this every year now. Like last year: if the politicians gathered at this conference agree and do anything - literally anything at all - to combat climate change that they wouldn't have done otherwise, the effect of their plane flights will be dwarfed by whatever thing, no matter how tiny, they agreed to do. "Leaders working on world hunger problem ate lunch, exacerbating problem" "Leaders wo…

Let me know when leaders working on global hunger ban GMOs then set crops on fire. Because that's the closer example to 1500 private jets flying to around to meet about climate change.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#44

Post by ttcbj »

DougN7 wrote: post #2

This is such a beautiful example. We all want change, but giving up modern conveniences is so hard. We might mock the people and their private planes but I don’t doubt someone would mock me for my cars, central air conditioning, etc.

Exactly this! There was a good TED talk by Hans Rosling saying, basically, people in developing economies want washing machines (just like you).

That is why I suspect the only solutions to climate change are:

* Develop an energy source which has a lower-cost and equal practicality to carbon-emitting sources, or

* Find a way to mitigate the effects of carbon emissions.

Otherwise, conservation in rich countries is just going to be replaced by consumption of the now cheaper oil/coal in developing ones.

I don't think it is realistic to ask people with far fewer conveniences (washing machines) to abandon their hopes of a better life by conserving (if people won't give up private jets, can you really expect much poorer people to give up more necessary conveniences?)

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#46

Post by trhway »

mattlondon wrote: post #13
DougN7 wrote: post #2

This is such a beautiful example. We all want change, but giving up modern conveniences is so hard. We might mock the people and their private planes but I don’t doubt someone would mock me for my cars, central air conditioning, etc.

I thought to myself: "Someone who cared could probably have got a train from most of Europe to Davos!" Then I thought about the sort of people that go to these things, and how long the train takes. They're oh so terribly important (sarcasm), that they simply cannot afford the time lost by traveling in anything other than a jet. And that I think is the problem - from the Davos-attendee right down to you and I with our…

Many companies bought a security and business continuity review and as a result the CEO must fly personal jet.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#47

Post by eric_b »

Unpopular Opinion: There is no viable solution to climate change through policy or political action.

No one wants to give up their own personal comfort or lifestyle for the sake of "the planet." Even people I know who are self-described ardent environmentalists still fly in planes frequently to all manner of touristy destinations so they can keep "collecting experiences."

Shit, look at Paris. They champion this climate accord and the minute the government raises taxes on fuel to help pay for some the policies, the people riot and destroy things and the government backs down.

The only "solution" to climate change, if you can call it that, is through technology and adaptation. As the Earth warms and the waters rise, people will need to move, and we will need to create new technology to ensure our agricultural production doesn't lessen and we can keep feeding people.

Honestly I don't really think it's gonna get all Mad Max/Extinction Level Event, but who knows, it might!

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#48

Post by lagadu »

makerofspoons wrote: post #12

The solution should include a carbon tax or fee to make such behavior uneconomical. Could Switzerland impose a carbon fee upon landing a private aircraft at a Swiss airport?

Why would Switzerland effectively offer a negative incentive towards people holding conferences there? Are you advocating that they should make attending climate conferences become more expensive and harder to attend?

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#49

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

Dreami wrote: post #31
mattlondon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought to myself: "Someone who cared could probably have got a train from most of Europe to Davos!" Then I thought about the sort of people that go to these things, and how long the train takes. They're oh so terribly important (sarcasm), that they simply cannot afford the time lost by traveling in anything other than a jet. And that I think is the problem - from the Davos-attendee right down to you and I with our…

I think the problem is security. Here in Switzerland, there's demos in various cities and also of course at Davos. If you would put them in trains, it would be harder to do it safely. (of course, why they even need so much security is another thing)

At some point, they'll have to be escorted by the military wherever they go, as more and more people will get angry at their unwillingness to fight (if not their contribution to) the ecological collapse.

I hope it isn't too late to escape this vicious cycle.

Re: 1500 Private Jets Fly to Davos for Climate Talks

#50

Post by throw564d »

nimish wrote: post #4
mikeash wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just hard, it’s also pointless unless we all do it together. If these people had refrained from making the trip, it would have no real impact on climate change. It’s a collective action problem.

That's defeatist. Small changes are not the only things that matter but saying "everything or nothing" is not helpful. The collective change that's needed to effect change begins with individual steps, like not taking a private plane when commercial will do.

Sadly this isn't true. The changes required to make any significant difference would likely involve the end of capitalism as we know it, and thus they will never happen until a catastrophe occurs. You're living in a dreamworld if you think even something like the Paris accord is anywhere close. And climate change is just one small way in which we are ruining the world. Imagine what things will be like with 10 billion! Yet population control is taboo because fee fees. It's liberalism gone suicidal.
Post reply on HN