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On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

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Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#231
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out ERVs, energy recovery ventilators.

These require a ducting system, correct?

Not necessarily. There're units that are installed in, basically, hole in the wall.

This makes them very attractive for older renovated building, which used to rely on drafts for air circulation.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#232
post #220
post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

What i found is that i can open a window to bring fresh air in but togather with it magnitude of pollution that causes cancer and asthma... Not a great choice if you ask me.

Move out of Beijing right now. Or out of Hebei province, or faraway from North Henan Province. Just move as sson as possible to a place with good air.

It does't not worth the money to live in Beijing, no matter how rich you can get there, and you can get rich there, but it simply does not worth.

Your life is more important, specially if you have kids.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#233
post #169
post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

This is wildly conjectural, but assuming the "CO2 is causing widespread cognitive problems" hypothesis is true, I wonder if there are whole colleges whose student bodies are getting slightly worse grades because of this. There are a couple of small colleges in my area that are regionally famous for their stuffy buildings.

The worst would be a small leak of CO (not CO2) , even in very small quantities, daily miligrams of CO coming from a leaky(small leak) Gas burning heating system. This will most probably get students scores down, among other extremmely bad health effects.

Bigger CO leaks are extremely dangerous, many people lost their lives because of heating systems.

If you can, change to Oil Flow system with burner outside the house and far and aislated from humans. Or, if you can, electrical system. CO from gas is Really Very dangerous.

(using the word "very" is against Mark Twain's advice[1], and using the word "really" is against my own advice, but there are exceptions, here above was one)

1:

“Substitute "damn" every time you're inclined to write "very" ; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be.”

                  Mark Twain
2- "delete all instances of "really" in you text, and your writing will be better"

ImmerseintheImmensity, Also unknown as InfimousInfinity, Also unknown as ParadoxParalax

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#234
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're on track to reach 1000ppm by the end of the century, if levels continue to rise at their present (accelerating) rate. This is about the threshold where cognitive effects become reliably detectable. However, such levels also bring climate change on such an apocalyptic scale (4.5+ degree temperature rise) that industrial activity could well wind down as society collapses.

This is absolutely not true. The predicted number is much closer to around 650 ppm, and that's assuming no change. In reality, things like solar technology have massively gone down in price over the last couple decades, and are only continuing to reduce in price. We will likely see 2-3 degrees of warming, but no credible scientist is making the predictions that you seem to be making.

> The predicted number is much closer to around 650 ppm, and that's assuming no change.

Though solar and other non-carbon energy sources are coming down in price, world energy needs are outpacing them. Out CO2 emissions are increasing, not decreasing. I doubt that we'll see 1000 ppm by the turn of the century, but if the "no change" projection is 650 ppm then by simple matter of inference, due to increasing CO2 output, we should be higher than that.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#235

I've worked on environmental sensing iot projects and have seen the cost of co2 sensors. Almost all the cheap ones are VOC sensors which infer a co2 level by assuming the VOC output is from humans (rather than paint for example). Given the cost of the device I would be amazed if it wasn't a VOC based sensor. The cheapest CO2 sensors I've seen are well over $250, even in bulk. CO2 is quite innert, so it requires very…

Can you recommend the lowest cost CO2 sensor that one can buy that would give reliable readings?

Repost from my comment above, but for a couple hundred bucks you can get an accurate CO2 sensor that reads out via USB-serial to a computer. I use them at work and we've shown they are quite good over the long term. Plus to recalibrate, you can just take them outside. https://www.co2meter.com/products/k-30-co2-sensor-module

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not true. The predicted number is much closer to around 650 ppm, and that's assuming no change. In reality, things like solar technology have massively gone down in price over the last couple decades, and are only continuing to reduce in price. We will likely see 2-3 degrees of warming, but no credible scientist is making the predictions that you seem to be making.

> The predicted number is much closer to around 650 ppm, and that's assuming no change. Though solar and other non-carbon energy sources are coming down in price, world energy needs are outpacing them. Out CO2 emissions are increasing, not decreasing. I doubt that we'll see 1000 ppm by the turn of the century, but if the "no change" projection is 650 ppm then by simple matter of inference, due to increasing CO2 outpu…

What I am saying is, that we will get to the point where it literally doesn't matter if world energy demand is increasing or not.

Why? Because if solar power and others, continue to go down in price, as they are doing now, then solar ect will be cheaper than coal.

From a purely economic stand point, countries will eventually just stop burning coal, because the alternatives are just flat out cheaper, even when you ignore the costs of global warming.

That point in time, when alternatives are just straight up cheaper than coal, isn't too far away.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a really stupid question but, wouldn't you _want_ sleepiness when you, I don't know, try to sleep?

I think the answer to your question is, yes, however you want to be sleepy due to a need for sleep rather than impaired function. CO2 is damaging to your body, I am not an expert in these matters however I know that much. Becoming tired due to CO2 is in effect a minor form of gassing yourself, and during sleep high CO2 is bad for you and I would assume does not give you high quality sleep - same as alcohol makes can…

Do you have some followup sources for these fairly strong claims?

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#238

There's one big problem with this entire idea of co2 levels affecting sleep quality or humans in general: Even though there are cognitive effects of CO2, most often the CO2 levels in indoor rooms are simply a sign of low oxygen levels. In fact, there should be an inverse relationship between CO2 and oxygen in rooms. So an experiments would need to take this into account and supply pure oxygen to make up for the oxyge…

That's intuitively appealing but when you look at the numbers it's almost certainly false. When CO2 goes from 400 ppm to 1000 ppm then oxygen will go from 21000 ppm to 20400 ppm, a 3% drop which isn't going to be enough to change anything.

Oxygen is 21% of the atmosphere, so 210000 ppm, not 21000 ppm.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#239
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I recently remember hearing forced air is bad for air quality inside! Did I hear wrong or is there something more to the story like “forced air brings in outside air, so if your outside air is bad you’ll have trouble”?

Most residential forced-air systems don't bring in air from outside (intentionally at least). They recirculate the air in the building through the heating/cooling unit (typically a combination updraft furnace with AC evaporator sitting on top). Modern systems (since late 80s, maybe?) have return air ducts so that you get even heating even if interior doors (e.g. bedroom doors) are closed, but older systems may only h…

Heat recovery ventilators [1] are reasonably common in Canada. Most (all?) EnergyStar homes [2] have one, and they includes most if not all the houses I've looked at (or friends have bought) in the past decade or so.

I lived in a house built around 1985 that had one, which was R-2000 [3], so they're at least that old.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_recovery_ventilation

[2] https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/housing/new-homes/...

[3] https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/homes/20575

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#240
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're on track to reach 1000ppm by the end of the century Probably won't be in my lifetime. Not my problem.

Probably still going to be your family's problem..

Not with that attitude :)
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