On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality • Hacker News Board

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#211

Post by chronic739 » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 4:40 AM UTC

dTal wrote: post #143

scottdupoy wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are atmospheric CO2 levels rising to an extent that currently projected levels would have a noticeable effect in the same way?

We're on track to reach 1000ppm by the end of the century, if levels continue to rise at their present (accelerating) rate. This is about the threshold where cognitive effects become reliably detectable. However, such levels also bring climate change on such an apocalyptic scale (4.5+ degree temperature rise) that industrial activity could well wind down as society collapses.

> We're on track to reach 1000ppm by the end of the century

Probably won't be in my lifetime. Not my problem.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#212

Post by benmccann » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 4:48 AM UTC

forthispurpose wrote: post #91

leonroy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t speak for OP but I’ve been using the IQAir Air Visual Pro and can support everything they’ve said. I try to keep CO2 around 400-500 in my office and home but it spikes surprisingly fast with even one person breathing in a medium sized room. It can integrate with HomeBridge and has a good API and unlike a lot of IOT stuff it’s well supported and stable.

do you know how accurate it is?

It seems pretty accurate. The South Coast Air Quality Management District tested a bunch of consumer devices against a $30,000 professional device. I was deciding between the IQAir and Laser Egg 2+, which both did well according to their tests http://www.aqmd.gov/aq-spec/evaluations/field. I got the Laser Egg 2+ the other day. It's really enlightening to see how it spikes when we cook dinner or lunch on the gas stove.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#213

Post by abootstrapper » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 4:52 AM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #81

wolco wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police recommand you close your windows to prevent breakins.

If you believe that is a serious concern in your area, get bars for your windows. There is no shame in it, I've lived in numerous buildings that had barred windows. However I suspect that most people don't sleep on the ground floor (either in a multi-level house, or in an apartment building) so for them this should be less of a concern.

Bars on the windows? Now we're back to fire safety.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#214

Post by Kadin » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

marricks wrote: post #136

AngryData wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has built my fair share of houses and worked on many more over the last 25 years, I have to agree that our ability to seal air better than ever is causing problems, especially if you don't have forced air heating and cooling running all the time. People just completely ignore or haven't ever thought about room ventilation, positive or negative room pressures, and where and how to ventilate to the outsi…

And I recently remember hearing forced air is bad for air quality inside! Did I hear wrong or is there something more to the story like “forced air brings in outside air, so if your outside air is bad you’ll have trouble”?

Most residential forced-air systems don't bring in air from outside (intentionally at least). They recirculate the air in the building through the heating/cooling unit (typically a combination updraft furnace with AC evaporator sitting on top).

Modern systems (since late 80s, maybe?) have return air ducts so that you get even heating even if interior doors (e.g. bedroom doors) are closed, but older systems may only have one return vent per floor or even just a single one in the house, and depend on gaps under doors and such for return air circulation.

Bigger commercial forced-air systems have had exterior air intakes and heat exchanger systems for a while, but are pretty new for residential (I've never seen one in the wild myself).

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#215

Post by Kadin » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 5:21 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #193

DocG wrote: post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

It seems it has not been such a big issue before plastic windows or in older houses. I think it is getting worse with every new building. That's because the focus on energy efficiency means installing HVAC that recirculates and setting the recirculation ratio to as high as they can get away with. Before that, buildings were taking in 100% outside air to heat/cool, which was extremely inefficient but also gave no chan…

> buildings were taking in 100% outside air to heat/cool

This hasn't been true since fireplaces stopped being used for heating. Even very basic furnaces, such as the coal-fired one my grandparents had in the 1940s, recirculated the air inside the house. (It was an unforced / gravity "octopus furnace", fired with soft coal, with the house temperature controlled via a damper on the chimney.) But it took its combustion air from inside, and was vented via a chimney to the outside, so the house was constantly at a very small negative pressure, and combined with the natural draftiness of prewar construction there was naturally some fresh air intake. But certainly not 100%!

I think it's the newer high-efficiency furnaces where you start to have very high recirculation ratios and consequent CO2 issues. Because they pull combustion air from outside, there's no incidental exhausting of interior air to outside (which would tend to pull in outside air through gaps in the building envelope). Great for efficiency, though.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#216

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 5:29 AM UTC

DocG wrote: post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

[deleted]

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#217

Post by swixmix » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 5:36 AM UTC

It doesn't appear that CO2 was the only variable in this experiment. Usually when people cause CO2 level to rise they also cause the O2 level to fall. Also, increasing oxygen will wake you up.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#218

Post by paradoxparalax » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

paradoxparalax wrote: post #165

xeromal wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure I read 68F is the ideal sleeping temp

That depends if are an an Ianomami[1] born in Brazil or an Inuit[2] born in Denmark. 1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanomami 2- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit : There is a risk, not for the Ianomami that are somewhat numerous, but that some other in Brazil are going to Extinction soon, after the last elections in that country. Only if they could move to Denmark...Or Northern Canada, where there are Inuits too.…

Don't know if above is getting downvoted by the the rightists or by the leftists here, what is fun. But probably getting d.v. because of being too caustic, too snarky and too ironic, what is not fun and I confess I deserve.

And, most important off all, I am getting downvoted for being Not polite to xeromal, and I apologise to xeromal for this. My comment sounded like he was being discriminative or something like that, what is not true, and off course I should have found a decent way of pointing that the ideal temperature to sleep varies from person to person. And off course, I should have avoided going astromically off-topic. But will not delete the comment, to let the lesson there for myself.

Irony is really not welcome, I have to make an effort to understand that and abide by rules and follow the recommendations.

But giving or asking explanations for up or down votes is equally Not recommended and not welcome, sure.

Better to abide. Otherwise just do[1] like Bender Bending Rodriguez of Futurama.

The original quote from Bender is: "I will make my own Lunar(really on the moon) Amusement Park, whith Blackjack,... and Hookers!!!. ...Well...forget about the Blackjack...You know what?...forget about the Park too."

1- https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/348/790/b3f...

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#219

Post by JauntyHatAngle » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 5:50 AM UTC

vagab0nd wrote: post #207

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend studied Interior Architectural Design, one of his professors there started one lecture a year by getting the CO2 sensors, placing them around the lecture hall, showing the readings at the start of the lecture, closing the doors and then after the hour long lecture showing the readings. During the lecture he mentioned the figures for CO2 concentration that led to symptoms, e.g. dizziness, sleepiness etc. The…

This might be a really stupid question but, wouldn't you _want_ sleepiness when you, I don't know, try to sleep?

I think the answer to your question is, yes, however you want to be sleepy due to a need for sleep rather than impaired function.

CO2 is damaging to your body, I am not an expert in these matters however I know that much.

Becoming tired due to CO2 is in effect a minor form of gassing yourself, and during sleep high CO2 is bad for you and I would assume does not give you high quality sleep - same as alcohol makes can make you drowsy while also interrupting your sleep.

"Natural" sleepiness has none of these downsides.

Re: On whether changes in bedroom CO2 levels affect sleep quality

#220

Post by pojzon » Tue, Jan 22, 2019, 6:05 AM UTC

DocG wrote: post #29

I was lucky to get my hands on 5 proper co2 sensors from university, while I was teaching and working. So plenty of test places. What I found: -Just a couple of hours in a office, without ventilation spikes the co2 enough to make everyone dizzy and tired by the end of the day. Keeping eye on the meter and ventilating properly, increased everyones productivity and people werent so tired by the end of the day. - Classr…

What i found is that i can open a window to bring fresh air in but togather with it magnitude of pollution that causes cancer and asthma...

Not a great choice if you ask me.