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Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

nytimes.com

51–60 of 95 posts

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#51
post #29
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100%. The approach I like is what I call "lowest negotiated price". How it would work is that buyers (i.e. insurance companies) could still negotiate for a lower cost, but whatever that cost ends up being is the cost _everyone_ pays. This allows buyers to continue to try to get a better price if they can, while likely making sure the price that is agreed upon is fair to all.

There is evidence that this would actually increase prices across the board. How do we know? Such a system already exists. The price that Medicaid plans pay is either 23% less than the average price paid or the “best price” (if lower). When this was instituted, drug companies actually pulled back on their discounts to non-Medicaid accounts, so as to not trigger the “best price”.

Right now there's likely to be 100 different prices for almost any medicine or procedure - it depends on who's paying. I think one of the frustrating aspects is that if you are uninsured, you are likely to pay the HIGHEST rate - even though you are likely to be the least able to afford it.

I agree that on non-generic drugs that the price would likely remain high - however if everyone paid the same rate (low or high) then it would at least discourage some of the type of pricing we see now where a procedure is provided below cost to a specific group of users to make sure those members (i.e. customers of specific insurance companies) are able to be kept "in network", while charging much, much higher rates to others to make up the difference.

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#53
Not sure how possible such an idea is, but why not create a public utility that creates essential medication for the lowest possible price? In the end Medicare seems to pay already huge amounts of money for some medications and there must be know-how in the federal government or other public institutions on how to manufacture medications.

I'm not trolling. Like clean water, this is maybe an area were society should not tolerate market failure or cronyism.

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#54
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100%. The approach I like is what I call "lowest negotiated price". How it would work is that buyers (i.e. insurance companies) could still negotiate for a lower cost, but whatever that cost ends up being is the cost _everyone_ pays. This allows buyers to continue to try to get a better price if they can, while likely making sure the price that is agreed upon is fair to all.

That sounds like an interesting solution. It makes me ponder a "highest negotiated salary for $position" approach to combat income inequality

We have most of that in a union. You can literally trace the decline of middle class income to the decline of union membership - i.e.:

https://www.russellsage.org/sites/default/files/Stone_Arthur...

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#55
post #45

While not for everyone, there's religious-like contention on all sides... but a ketogenic diet and fasting focus can help most people get off of insulin. It isn't easy and takes more effort for some than others. I've been mostly off of insulin for well over a year, though I do keep a vial in the fridge for emergencies, I tend to have a spike once in a while. Personally, I think it's about time for medical patents to…

For type I diabetics, that option is off the table. It isn't that they are resistant, it is they don't produce any at all. It is insulin or death for them.

I understand that... but most diabetics (by a large margin) are type 2. Even for longer term type 2, with lower production (damaged beta cell production), it's necessary to monitor and have insulin on hand just in case.

> ... can help most people get off of insulin

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#57
post #28

Luckily I never had to take insulin, as I am not diabetic. I had a dog, however, who needed it. She was prescribed Humulin-N, which is not generic. The generic insulin would not be adequate for her, according to the vet. When I got to the pharmacy, I was amazed to learn that it would cost us ~200 USD each time I needed a vial, which I would not be able to afford; I had pet insurance, but it wasn't any help. I have fa…

You can get novolin-n at Walmart for about $26 a vial without a prescription. I’m a type 1 diabetic and fallback to this when I’m unable to get a prescription.

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#58
post #53

Not sure how possible such an idea is, but why not create a public utility that creates essential medication for the lowest possible price? In the end Medicare seems to pay already huge amounts of money for some medications and there must be know-how in the federal government or other public institutions on how to manufacture medications. I'm not trolling. Like clean water, this is maybe an area were society should n…

> ...but why not create a public utility that creates essential medication for the lowest possible price?

One possible reason I can think of is then nobody would develop new essential medications because they know the government will just nationalize it after they spend the billions getting it approved through the FDA.

And everyone + dog would be calling their medication "essential" in order to get the benefits of governmental production.

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#59
post #56

For those wondering I found this on WebMD. > In 2000, the first long-acting synthetic insulin was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. Looks like it will still be at least another year before a viable generic enters the market.

It has been available for a couple of years already: https://investor.lilly.com/news-releases/news-release-detail...

More competion may be coming (or maybe not): https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/mylan-pressing-forward-l...

Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients

#60
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also fix the way medicine works so pre-diabetics are put on an appropriate, low carb diet so they don't end up with diabetes and all of the horrible complications in the first place. Medicine as a whole will be looked back upon very poorly with how it handled diet, sleep, sunlight exposure, etc.

It's not like doctors and actuaries don't know this. For reasons poorly understood (though there are many theories) most people have a difficult time changing whatever lifestyle was hurting them in the first place. People also have a poor model of how health care works (most people seem to think it's like getting your car fixed: go to "mechanic" and have problem fixed). Finally the educational level that needs to be…

Do you mind if I ask what the underlying illness was? Or maybe some of the testing you did?
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