Interestingly, Walmart sells generic insulin. The same stuff used decades ago, for only $25 a vial. However, the advances in insulin since then mean it’s a much more burdensome therapy. https://insulinnation.com/treatment/why-walmart-insulins-are...
Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
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Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#12This is exactly what you get when there is no transparency, and everything is driven by non-market forces. Why not create an actual market where all medications, medical services, tests, etc, have a known price and people can make decisions based on cost, quality, and other factors?
Medicine as a whole will be looked back upon very poorly with how it handled diet, sleep, sunlight exposure, etc.
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#13Wait don't the patents eventually expire on the old formulations?
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#14The reason seems pretty clear from contrasting these two passages: > The pricing is all the more infuriating when one considers that the discoverers of insulin sold the patent for $1 each to ensure that the medication would be affordable. > The bigger issue, however, is that companies tweak their formulations so they can get new patents, instead of working to create cheaper generic versions.
No need to make bazillions.
Crowd fund it.
Or, regulate.
Both would be just fine with me.
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#15This is exactly what you get when there is no transparency, and everything is driven by non-market forces. Why not create an actual market where all medications, medical services, tests, etc, have a known price and people can make decisions based on cost, quality, and other factors?
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#16> The bigger issue, however, is that companies tweak their formulations so they can get new patents, instead of working to create cheaper generic versions. Wait don't the patents eventually expire on the old formulations?
And it works. Not to be a big insurance company shill but they're often the last line of defense against your doctor trying to prescribe an identical, brand name product for the equivalent generic.
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#171. Pharmaceuticals have natural monopolies on these drugs (due to regulation, market power, etc.).
2. The public and end consumers are largely unaware when these monopolies are exercising their power to increase costs. This is because there is no one price, you don't actually pay the actual price (if you're on insurance), and it's difficult to actually realize what the price of a drug is.
3. Many insurance companies don't have strong incentives to combat price increases. [1] As these prices increase, consumers become more and more reliant on insurance. [2] Insurance companies have targets for what percent of their expenses they are allowed to devote to administrative costs (buildings, salaries. etc). As the cost of drugs rises, they can increase salaries etc. while keeping the percent devoted to administrative costs constant. [3] Insurance companies are also largely monopolies. End consumers usually take whatever their employer gives them and in most states there are only a few providers. As such, they don't have much pressure to have more competitive plans.
4. Pharmaceuticals companies respond to demands to increase shareholder value by increasing drug prices. This is exactly what we'd expect them to do as per their incentives.
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The solution to me is the following:
1. Allow the safe import of drugs from overseas to create a more competitive market (the US has strong regulations against importing drugs mainly due to safety concerns). See this(https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/u-s-make-easier-import-p...).
2. Regulate pharmaceuticals and insurance companies as the monopolies they are, or dramatically lower the barriers to entry in the space.
3. Reduce the power of pharmaceutical companies to lobby and reinforce the regulations that help them preserve their monopolies. They have every incentive to lobby for protection and it's no surprise that healthcare industry has by far the biggest lobbying spend in the US - nearly double that of Oil & Gas (https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=i&showYe...).
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The book American Sickness(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IOHQ9LO/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...) discusses just how far we are from any type of perfect competition in this industry and the resulting effects on consumers. I really enjoyed it and it's a great book if you're interested in the space.
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#18> The answer is all of the above. But what’s most enraging is that drug manufacturers, P.B.M.s and insurance companies don’t have to pick up the pieces from the real-world consequences of their policies. That falls to the patients.
I think this is an important and balanced quote. Often in the public debate, drug pricing and access, which are two separate concepts, are conflated. A drug can be priced fairly but be inaccessible to patients because insurance companies and PBMs want to hold costs down. This often happens with drugs that treat lots of people. Because of the high volume, insurers will have massive expense for covering a drug, even at fair (i.e. Cost effective) prices. So they fight tooth and nail (often using the media as a weapon) to reduce price. Drug manufacturers won't lower price (often bc they will lose money if they do), so insurers deny
An example of this is CAR-T therapies. Cost effectiveness research shows that cost per QALY is within acceptable ranges but payers make it hard to get the drug. I think the same was true of the curative hep c drugs but don't recall the cost-benefit analyses. These drugs were incredibly effective and many people would benefit from them, so payers saw a huge potential expense and denied care until competitors emerged
In some cases though, pricing is the bigger issue. This often happens with established drugs where manufacturers increase prices, or drugs with limited competition.
Insulin is an example where both pricing and access are not great, i.e. PBMs / insurers and manufacturers are probably equally at fault
Drug pricing and access is a complex and highly competitive negotiation between manufacturers and payers and the media is a powerful weapon used in this negotiation. Lots of lobbying done as well. And there are many behind the scenes players with a stake in the debate (i.e. Hospitals wanting the public to blame drug companies for high healthcare costs). This seems like a balanced article to me, but take articles about healthcare with a healthy dose of skepticism
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#19I still think the approach I proposed years ago would be a big help: Turn the usual arguments on their head, prohibit all negotiation. Drug companies would be required to sell to all customers at the same price. This would end all cost-shifting, it's fair for all and forces the drug companies to actually compete on the end price. This would end this sort of preferred drug shifting, it would end the game of state Medi…
Re: Insulin Wars: How insurance companies farm out dirty work to doctors patients
#20This is exactly what you get when there is no transparency, and everything is driven by non-market forces. Why not create an actual market where all medications, medical services, tests, etc, have a known price and people can make decisions based on cost, quality, and other factors?
We could also fix the way medicine works so pre-diabetics are put on an appropriate, low carb diet so they don't end up with diabetes and all of the horrible complications in the first place. Medicine as a whole will be looked back upon very poorly with how it handled diet, sleep, sunlight exposure, etc.
For reasons poorly understood (though there are many theories) most people have a difficult time changing whatever lifestyle was hurting them in the first place. People also have a poor model of how health care works (most people seem to think it's like getting your car fixed: go to "mechanic" and have problem fixed). Finally the educational level that needs to be addressed is quite low (e.g. the FDA requires that medical labeling assume a fifth grade eduction; since most people take two headache tablets, most are set at a level where two is not dangerous, etc).
Thus, for example, the ADA diet advice recommends you have a "small" amount of carbs ("have a smaller slice of cake, or have an orange instead") in the hope that at least they can reduce the severity of the symptoms. Too large a goal might lead to no compliance at all.
And the actuaries at the insurance companies have figured out the lifetime cost of putting someone on maintenance therapy vs more aggressive treatment that in most cases people won't follow.
A case in point: I was diagnosed with prediabetes and my endocrinologist would only prescribe mainline treatment without additional investigation. Legally she could order any test she wanted but not only would the insurance company bounce anything nonstandard (by their standards) but the hospital management would hassle her as well. I was lucky: I had the money and the education to find and work with a different doctor and found an underlying illness. Once treated, a bunch of symptoms (of which diabetes was just one) went away. The system is not set up to help people like me (though sadly it's not clear how it could even with infinite funding).