Earlier quoted context omitted.
I gave an example of one of our erstwhile technical interview questions below. Batting around interview questions is a hacker sport and I've met dozens of developers who delighted in relaying and evangelizing their preferred questions. I'll admit, candidly, that "what's your favorite tech stack and what don't you like about it" --- a question you can literally just look up blog posts on, and a question I feel I could…
Aren't you two hiring for completely different position? One is looking for web system developer and the other is looking for the kind of coder that will write exploits and smaller tools. In one position you expect the senior to have general idea about wide range of relevant technologies, because you expect senior to choose between them occasionally (plus hiring manager knows that stuff too). Second position does not…
When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
601–610 of 694 posts
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#602Earlier quoted context omitted.
Really? Are you in the Bay Area? If so, I find it hard to believe there’s not at least one startup within 10 miles of your current employer doing something at least vaguely interesting (or, at least more interesting than selling ads).
He'll have to take a large paycut to work for it though...
Like, for me; I'd be so happy to take a 20% (hourly) pay cut and work half-time for 40% of my current total pay and go to school the rest of the time. But as far as I can tell, the hourly paycut would be more like 50+% just on the hourly, so I'd be looking at like a quarter the total comp, and the prestige cut (and thus hit to future earnings) would be huge, as I'd have to go work for a startup/small company.
I guess this will make more sense if marginal tax rates go back up.
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#603While the definition of senior engineer is a bit squishy, I agree completely that as some one gets more senior they increasingly choose the company rather than the other way around. I'm soft-launching a product to help companies recruit and I've done about a dozen customer development interviews with hiring managers (5 person companies through FAANGs) in the last two weeks. One thing I heard constantly was that refer…
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#604Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Actually for many people they feel trapped because they’d like a LITTLE more space, ie. the Victorian townhome, but they specifically DO NOT want a car or a yard and do not want to leave the historic, walkable city. At that point you’re really screwed because outside of SF there is basically nothing else walkable west of the Mississippi. So there’s nowhere to go. There are a few other big cities on the west coast,…
LA is world-famous for being non-walkable (even as it simultaneously is getting much better for walkability, hilariously). Seattle just isn't walkable compared to SF.
Seattle is walkable enough for me. It's not a binary variable.
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#605Isn't it just... mostly money? I mean, if you want to hire someone good, who presumably has a good job, you have to pay better than what they are getting now. I think this is probably especially true in Europe; I mean, as far as I know, people get like a 2x-4x raise moving to silicon valley from europe. If you pay more than your local competitors, you will largely have your pick of the candidates. I mean, yes, things…
Not really, you have to pay competitively of course. But you can safely assume that everybody else does that too. I noticed a pattern in Berlin where I'm based where the less attractive jobs indeed come with higher salaries. When the work is shit and they bleed engineers faster than they can hire them there's nothing else they can do than up their rates. So, when I see a top rate advertised, I immediately ask myself:…
In silicon valley, the difference between what a FAANG company pays and what almost everyone else pays is... pretty big. Like maybe not double? but certainly half again as much. I mean, you could say they are competing for different people, I suppose, but when a recruiter tells me that they "pay competitively" - that means drastically different things for different companies, even if I am limiting myself to companies within 10 miles of santa clara.
> I noticed a pattern in Berlin where I'm based where the less attractive jobs indeed come with higher salaries. When the work is shit and they bleed engineers faster than they can hire them there's nothing else they can do than up their rates.
Huh. That's really interesting, 'cause my experience (In the US, mostly in silicon valley) is the opposite. There were times in my life where I actively sought out harder and even more dangerous work for more money; but even casting aside any concern over who I worked for, even if I was willing to go work in a war zone, for my skills? the pay was better sitting on an expensive chair in a safe office in mountain view.
Even within silicon valley, the smaller companies and the "scrappy" startups or small companies seemed to me to be a whole lot higher stress... which for parts of my life? sure, I'll take extra stress for extra money, but no, those companies pay a lot less. Which, again, is fine in certain parts of my life; I'm not educated, so I needed to get a lot of experience before I was given a shot at a job in one of the FAANG companies. And it was... really a very different sort of experience; I was 20 last time I had a job where I felt that junior compared to my colleagues, (and I had a hell of a job when I was 20).
I've seen something similar around layoffs; I've been through several layoffs but have yet to get a pink slip myself. and I've always found myself dissapointed that I wasn't laid off; those in the first round get nice severance, a retraining bonus, and a chance to get another job before too many other people are laid off. Those of us who "dodge the axe" end up having to do twice the work with almost no hope of a raise and with co-workers who are afraid of getting laid off in the next round.
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#606Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they understand their friend's work deeply, doesn't that imply they've done something comparable themselves?
No, let me give a specific example. Imagine you're interviewing a candidate and they're talking through how to design an analytics service. They begin talking about e.g. database architecture, and how this type of data is most appropriate for a star schema. They start talking about the tradeoffs of row versus column orientation. They mention they'll need to do indexing for performance and talk about the index space v…
Imagine you're interviewing a candidate and they're talking through how to design an analytics service. They begin talking about e.g. database architecture, and how this type of data is most appropriate for a star schema. They start talking about the tradeoffs of row versus column orientation. They mention they'll need to do indexing for performance and talk about the index space versus query speed tradeoff. They say they'll do joins on the x and y tables.
Is this demonstrating deep understanding though?
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#607Earlier quoted context omitted.
I gave an example of one of our erstwhile technical interview questions below. Batting around interview questions is a hacker sport and I've met dozens of developers who delighted in relaying and evangelizing their preferred questions. I'll admit, candidly, that "what's your favorite tech stack and what don't you like about it" --- a question you can literally just look up blog posts on, and a question I feel I could…
"a question you can literally just look up blog posts on, and a question I feel I could answer credibly for several languages/frameworks I don't even know" Really? You mean you could memorize a blog post for random languages, go into an interview and answer a question and not completely fall apart from follow up question 1, 2, n?... You make it sound like I'm asking this question, getting a monologue response and jus…
Except even if you could get someone to do that it doesn't filter for the right candidates. Someone who can quickly get up to speed in a foreign domain is not the same skill as being able to build great systems/code/etc in a domain you're familiar with. The day to day of a programmer after the first X months if the latter and not the former.
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#608* Candidate applies * Within 24 hours, the candidate has a personal reply from our in-house recruiter. That E-mail explains the entire interview process and sets up a brief 15-20 min phone screen with the candidate.
1) The phone screen is mostly nothing more than a brief "psychopath test" (is this person nice to talk to or are they rude or condescending?). The recruiter talks to them about their own goals, aspirations - if we approached them, we skip the "why do you want to work here" part otherwise we ask them what appealed to them.
2) The candidate is given a take-home assignment (which has no time limit but has been vetted against internal staff to take no more than really about an hour), with a note attached that says "Hey, you're likely a great and talented candidate and I'm well aware that you may be thinking that this is a waste of your valuable time. What I can assure you is that a) I'm only doing this because our industry is a sewer ;), with no real standardized screenings b) As discussed in the first E-mail, there are no further technical "screenings" coming forward - if we go to the next phase, we'll just discuss your approach to the assignment for a bit and then it's "getting to know you" time.
Internally, this technical assignment is not one where two reviewers can have different "reads"; there are things we're explicitly looking for to determine overall "level", mainly with readability, approach, things like that (as just one example, a senior level candidate will know about unit testing and show something along those lines in their solution).
3) Someone reviews the submission. We reply within 48 hours.
3a) If the candidate is a no fly we don't go forward, and tell them so. If the candidate asks why, I tell them explicitly what the assignment was looking for, provide links to get acquainted with those and encourage them to reapply at a later date (we hired someone who did exactly this - those are the kind of passionate ones you want to be working with).
3b) Candidate is a go-forward;
the next step of the interview is simply a discussion about "The Alliance" (Reid Hoffman, great book, at least the first half) of what they'd like to do with their career and whether the company can harmonize that into something both parties are happy with, and a getting to know the candidate a bit deeply. I told candidates explicitly at this point not to stress, as this wasn't an interrogation but simply us understanding that - to tie this back to the original posting - they were interviewing us as much as we were interviewing them.
Our hire quality sharply increased after that. I left the company a year and a half ago but that process is still in place, relatively unaltered. In fact, one person left the company, went to another company and basically "stole" that interviewing approach because he thought it was so good for finding people but also treating them with respect (which is critically important).
TL-DR; our industry, particularly around hiring, really sucks and it's an absolute crapshoot on both sides of the equation. It's sad and really depressing; I try not to spend too much time thinking about it and more time trying to mitigate it in my small corners of the world. =) I wish it were different.
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#609Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems extremely off to me - from my POV who the hell has time to study algorithms and implementing data structures every time they need to find a job? Trying to make sure I can whiteboard a random CS problem from a massive set of potentials on the fly in front of observers is drastically more involved and requires much more time that serves no other purpose than facilitating interviewing, versus just spending an…
Not sure what you're arguing. I'm fine going through tough technical interviews. I'm not fine spending 3-5+ hours on some trivial coding task that can be gamed and was issued to me by folks who may not have even thoroughly checked my resume. Given the current supply/demand curve, and the fact that top employers like FAANGs do not require this sort of time and effort (and for a good reason), I don't have to jump throu…
Re: When hiring senior engineers, you’re not buying, you’re selling
#610Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Principal engineer"? Do you actually have an engineering degree? Have you formal education in engineering? What is system engineering? It's not just you; the entire IT industry is suffering from systemic curriculum vitae bloat. That's why the working conditions are so bad in the professional sense.
The subject of what constitutes an engineer or what entitles a professional to the "engineer" title has been discussed ad nauseum here on HN. Spoiler: "engineer" as a title for someone who does computer programming and software development without a license is perfectly fine and acceptable in the USA. In Canada, however, it's probably not.