Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#91

Post by passivepinetree » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:05 AM UTC

masonic wrote: post #84

codereflection wrote: post #46

Seattle does this for kids in middle school and high school. Each kid gets an Orca card for free (transit card that we use in the Seattle area). Lots of kids use them, even the kids who travel ~10 miles to get to their school. I know it's saved me a lot of money in gas and bus fare over the years with my kids getting this benefit. The only down side is that the cards are only good for during the school year.

Odd that they name a card for kids after a vicious predator.

It stands for One Regional Card for All and it ties into an area wildlife. Orcas are commonly seen in local Native American art, mythology, etc. and are generally well-regarded. Local news often runs stories about certain whales in area pods. It’s not as weird as you’d think if you don’t live here.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#92

Post by moorhosj » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:08 AM UTC

dorfsmay wrote: post #57

moorhosj wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paris had 2.9 million people in 1921 and 2.2 million today. Is it really overpopulated?

Your numbers are from the city of Paris. Most people riding in the metro during working rush hours are not from the city of Paris, but from the suburb. The suburb population in 1921 was 4.8 M in 1921 and 12.2 M in 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Paris#Historic...

The RER was created in the 60s for this purpose and continually expanded since, no?

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#93

Post by jwr » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:15 AM UTC

Warsaw made public transportation free for school-age kids (must show valid school id if prompted) about two years ago, which I think was a great move.

It's not really about the cost: this move makes it easier (in many ways) to use public transportation to get your kid to school. It means you don't have to think or worry about your child's tickets, buying or validating them. You just hop on and ride, only remembering about your fare (presumably you already have a way of paying, I use my phone to pay).

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#94

Post by hopler » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:19 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #39

Shivetya wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

previous studies done showed that making it free did not result in significant uptick in usage[1]. It really comes down to, does it go where you want from where you want when you want and all this on a timely basis. Hence the big reason buses always win over rail as they can adapt to changing needs. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/01/why-can...

> the big reason buses always win over rail A bus from where I live to London takes about 5.5 hours, compared to 2 hours on a train. I can also get a meal served on a train and work comfortably at a large table, which I can't do a bus. Busses definitely don't always win over trains. I think they hardly ever do.

That's an extreme example of long distance travel, not normal commuting distance.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#95

Post by hopler » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:22 AM UTC

abalone wrote: post #16

Little tip for anyone living in SF (fair percentage of this website): All minors can ride muni free if their family is at or below the Bay Area medium income, which is $115K for a family of four.[1] [1] https://www.sfmta.com/fares/free-muni-youth

Ugh, what's the point of making rich kids pay? Just to make it awkward for rich kids and normal kids traveling together?

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#96

Post by samatman » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:24 AM UTC

masonic wrote: post #85

MrTonyD wrote: post #27

Hong Kong makes 2 billion a year on public transportation. They did that by giving the land around the station to the transportation agency, so they lease it out long term, and that pays for all the trains and operations. They charge a token fee for using public transportation. I'd prefer to see real public support, rather than a business/profit justification for lower fares, but in the current greed-valued world I'l…

makes 2 billion a year on public transportation No, they make money on real estate to offset their losses on transit.

The value of that land is its adjacency to public transportation, I don’t see this statement as the slam-dunk you seem to think it is.

When Google ‘loses money’ on search to make it up with ads, everyone thinks this is very clever. What Hong Kong is doing is no different.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#97

Post by masonic » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:26 AM UTC

passivepinetree wrote: post #91

masonic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that they name a card for kids after a vicious predator.

It stands for One Regional Card for All and it ties into an area wildlife. Orcas are commonly seen in local Native American art, mythology, etc. and are generally well-regarded. Local news often runs stories about certain whales in area pods. It’s not as weird as you’d think if you don’t live here.

  are generally well-regarded

I didn't say they are evil, just that they are ruthless predators. They're a natural element of their ecosystem, playing a longstanding role in it.

But I still feel for the humpback calves.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#98

Post by arcticbull » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:29 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #43

johannes1234321 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kind of a strawman. Maybe one could also find better ways to give shelter to homeless. And for the bad kid there are other ways than using tickets for that.

Laws are kind of a non sequitor. Maybe one could also find better ways to motivate people to treat each other decently. But I’m going to continue funding homicide investigations. “Don’t make things livable in small and practical ways, just hold out for total structural revolution and the solution to multigenerational and intractable social problems” is an infuriating line that unfortunately guides much of San Francis…

(1) Its not homicide vs. housing. Both are fundable without impacting the other, that's a straw man.

(2) You live in a society and pretending that you don't and funding nothing isn't going to make the problem go away, it's going to be there getting worse. This is the dark side to America's individualism. Everyone looks out for themselves and pretends nobody else's problems should matter to them, then look around at the crap pile that leaves behind and wonders whose responsibility it should be -- not theirs to be sure.

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#99

Post by arcticbull » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:36 AM UTC

writepub wrote: post #51

zhoujianfu wrote: post #2

Why not make it just free for everybody? Public transportation typically has profit margins of -50% to -90% anyway... just take it to -100% and get a huge boost in ridership! (And probably save some expenses relating to collecting payment/enforcement.)

Why not aim for 0% profit, and keep public transit self sustaining? Everything has a cost, and making something (virtually) cost 0 only transfers the cost elsewhere

That would dramatically increase prices to the end user; some of the lowest firebox recovery rates in the world are here in the Bay Area. The VTA only takes in 10% of it's operating expenses from ridership, so we'd have to raise a one-way adult fare on the VTA to $22.50 (neglecting the demand curve). bart, though, would go up "only" 30% -- while Muni rides would go up to $6.50 [1]

Like highways, these are infrastructure. The goal isn't to recover 100% of revenue from the farebox because it generates revenue indirectly. Without roads you wouldn't have trucks. With a $6.50 Muni ride you wouldn't have much of a downtown core.

There are some notable examples like Hong Kong MTR which generates 125% of operating expenses from the farebox, though their density helps and their creative business model (allowing MTR to own surface rights above stations it constructs [2]) help that out an awful lot. I'm sure if Muni/Bart/Caltrain were gifted the land on top of each station we'd see fares come down real quick.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

[2] https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/2154424...

Re: Paris Will Make Public Transportation Free for Kids

#100

Post by yardie » Mon, Jan 21, 2019, 3:45 AM UTC

iodbh wrote: post #67

ahakki wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are kicked out. The doors are locked.

I have spent a couple of nights in locked metro stations myself : before locking, they just warn that they're going to lock. Whoever's still inside is locked in until morning, but there's no kicking out.

That must be one of the bigger stations like Châtelet. There are endless hallways and tunnels to hide in. A simpler 1-train station will have 2-4 exits and they will certainly put you out.